Jesus didnt carry his cross. Symon did

[Avoice]

If the writer of the book of Mathew is telling the truth when he said a man from Cyrene named Symon carried his cross then maybe it was Symon they crucified. Christians should find that very believable. After all they believe many have been martyrs for Jesus. So why not one more?
The writer doesn't say what Jesus was doing or where he was when Symon was suffering for your sins

[Red Wolf]

Of course there is law against carry things....it is work.

The conversation between Jesus and his persecutors would have been interesting, then.

"Sorry, I can do you work. I can't carry this cross - against my religion."

If he had not yet been flogged I'm sure one of the unsavoury mercenary soldiers, not famed for their kindness, would have changed Christ's mind rather sharply. I understand he was beaten pretty badly - at least according to Mel Gibson - and required some help to carry the cross. Apparently he was not allowed to employ his miraculous powers during the crucifixion scenario. That would not have satisfied God.

You have to realize that the synoptic gospels do not have Jesus carrying his cross. Only John's Gospel has Jesus carrying the cross. The synoptic gospels knew it was against the law [a sin] to carry the cross on a holy day so they crafted the story with Simon of Cyrene carrying the cross. Doesn't this make you suspicious of this whole story?

[Red Wolf]

[Replying to post 16 by Red Wolf]

There was no law against carrying things.

So the answer to your question is no, even if Jesus did die on a Sabbath ( which he did not)

JW

Of course there is law against carry things....it is work.

Says who? You ? Show me the law in the Mosaic code ("thou shalt not carry anything on the Sabbath") and I shall stand corrected. The Pharisees made up all kinds of additional rules (which Jesus rightly ignored) but nothing in the actual law prohibited carrying.

My comment stands.


JW

Carrying is work....It is a sin to work on a holy day.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 22 by Red Wolf]

According to you maybe, but did you write that in the law code we were are talking about? Listen, its very simple just quote where the law said "carrying is work" , we are talking about a legal stipulation, there were over 600 laws just find the one that says "carrying is work" and then I'll concede.

JW

[Red Wolf]

[Replying to post 22 by Red Wolf]

According to you maybe, but did you write that in the law code we were are talking about? Listen, its very simple just quote where the law said "carrying is work" , we are talking about a legal stipulation, there were over 600 laws just find the one that says "carrying is work" and then I'll concede.

JW

Numbers 15:32-36
32 Now while the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering wood on the sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation; 34 and they put him in custody because it had not been declared what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.� 36 So all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him to death with stones, just as the Lord had commanded Moses.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 22 by Red Wolf]

According to you maybe, but did you write that in the law code we were are talking about? Listen, its very simple just quote where the law said "carrying is work" , we are talking about a legal stipulation, there were over 600 laws just find the one that says "carrying is work" and then I'll concede.

JW

Numbers 15:32-36
32 Now while the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering wood on the sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation; 34 and they put him in custody because it had not been declared what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.� 36 So all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him to death with stones, just as the Lord had commanded Moses.

Your point?


Where does it say carrying was prohibited? I asked to be shown the law, once you start with this basic, you can then analyse how it was applied but as yet you haven't shown me an anti-carrying law.

It's not a complicated request, if you contend there was a law that prohibited carrying anything show the law that says "Dont carry anything". How hard can it be? There was a law do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness, there was even a law not to covert your neighbours donkey.... but "thou shalt not carry", not so much.


JW

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 25 by JehovahsWitness]

Manually transporting hardware from one location to another is doing work. Work was forbidden. All the rest is spin.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 22 by Red Wolf]

According to you maybe, but did you write that in the law code we were are talking about? Listen, its very simple just quote where the law said "carrying is work" , we are talking about a legal stipulation, there were over 600 laws just find the one that says "carrying is work" and then I'll concede.

JW

Numbers 15:32-36
32 Now while the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering wood on the sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation; 34 and they put him in custody because it had not been declared what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.� 36 So all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him to death with stones, just as the Lord had commanded Moses.

In emergencies, like to rescue a person or get livestock out of a ditch , work is allowed(or other things necesary to life, feeding babies, treating wounds, tending livestock if necessary). I believe in the case you quoted, he was not gathering wood to heat his home but for profit.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 22 by Red Wolf]

According to you maybe, but did you write that in the law code we were are talking about? Listen, its very simple just quote where the law said "carrying is work" , we are talking about a legal stipulation, there were over 600 laws just find the one that says "carrying is work" and then I'll concede.

JW

Numbers 15:32-36
32 Now while the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering wood on the sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation; 34 and they put him in custody because it had not been declared what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.� 36 So all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him to death with stones, just as the Lord had commanded Moses.

Your point?


Where does it say carrying was prohibited? I asked to be shown the law, once you start with this basic, you can then analyse how it was applied but as yet you haven't shown me an anti-carrying law.

It's not a complicated request, if you contend there was a law that prohibited carrying anything show the law that says "Dont carry anything". How hard can it be? There was a law do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness, there was even a law not to covert your neighbours donkey.... but "thou shalt not carry", not so much.


JW

They would have had to carry their sacrifices to the tabernacle. They would have carried their babies to the tabernacle. The man gathering wood apparently was doing so not to heat his home or some other service to God and others but for selfish reasons. So the spirit if the law seems to be, why would someone be carrying something? The law was made to benefit mankind not to burden it with laws that make no sense.

[Avoice]

[Replying to post 20 by JehovahsWitness]

Here.....Right from the mouth of God from the book of Jeremiah

Thus says the LORD, “Take heed for yourselves, and do not carry any load on the sabbath day

[Avoice]

[Replying to post 20 by JehovahsWitness]

Here.....Right from the mouth of God from the book of Jeremiah

Thus says the LORD, “Take heed for yourselves, and do not carry any load on the sabbath day