Moderator: Moderators
)Wow, this one got interesting. I can believe the reports as I can accept evil being annihilated(even potential future evil). Even the Flood. I think we here on Earth hold Ourselves in higher regard than we should. We are , in this world, only minor characters. Sons of Abraham apparently can come from stones. This is all a construct with real consequences. Really, this world is like one of those video games that are so real that they look and feel real, except they are not.Elijah John wrote: Do you believe the Bible rumors about God? The negative ones, like Him condoning slavery, or Him drowning babies in the Flood?
Do you believe rumors against the people in your life that you love?
Do you believe the worst that's said about them? Or the best about them.
For debate,
How can anyone who claims to love God believe the worst things said about him, i.e. the negative Bible rumors?
(apologies to DI for the term "rumors" I borrowed for this post
Thank you for onewithhim. You give instances from past Scripture where "today" is used to mark some important event or statement. We can visit Luke too:onewithhim wrote:
It's interesting that the "today" doesn't sound right to you. I figured that you are better-read than you appear to be with this issue. That way of expression was not unique to this passage in Luke's gospel.
I showed you how "today" was used exactly as Jesus used it, in prior times. What he said could VERY WELL have been "I tell you today." Yet you won't even concede to the reasonableness of my argument that defends that interpretation.marco wrote:Thank you for onewithhim. You give instances from past Scripture where "today" is used to mark some important event or statement. We can visit Luke too:onewithhim wrote:
It's interesting that the "today" doesn't sound right to you. I figured that you are better-read than you appear to be with this issue. That way of expression was not unique to this passage in Luke's gospel.
Today a Saviour, who is Messiah the Lord, was born for you in the city of David. This marks an important event.
The disputed statement: I tell you today you will be with me in Paradise can either, as in the examples given, mark something important (being in Paradise TODAY) or it can uselessly mark the day on which the statement is being made, with no date whatsoever attached to the destination in Paradise. The circumstances, shortage of time and near death, would suggest, to Marco at least, that Jesus was communicating something important rather than using a redundant word. I have no reason to opt for either interpretation other than the dictates of common sense. I would hate to think my entire system of belief depended on this interpretation.
But Bible rumours are built on false interpretations.
onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 39 by Checkpoint]
I have given you well thought-out conclusions that I have come to, and how I reached them.
Yet you comment to me as if I was a stuck-up school girl looking for an argument, rather than WHY you would disagree with my conclusions.
Me too. I apologise to you, unreservedly.OK. I am also
Sorry!
Indeed it is..let's go!onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 11 by Checkpoint]
I think what you say about removing punctuation is a fair idea. It would be better than having a comma in the wrong place. What a great idea to leave it out of Luke 23:43!
One would hope so, but I think it isn't very likely, sad to say. It has been an integral part of the debate that seems to be set in concrete.I think that then the people that insist that Christ and the thief would go somewhere that day would stop using that verse to prove their erroneous point.
onewithhim wrote:Checkpoint wrote:onewithhim wrote: [[url=http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 876#991876]Replying to post 11 by Checkpoint
That is one way often taken. The best way, in my opinion and experience.Doesn't one way of looking at the placing of the comma (the way I see it) back up the rest of the scriptures throughout the Bible?
Three questions, three answers, three yes's!1) The dead know nothing at all. (Ecclesiastes 9:5)
2) The spirit that goes out is simply God's own life-force, His spirit that keeps a person alive. (Psalm 146:4)
3) Paradise is a real place, to be accomplished when Jesus rules over the earth for 1,000 years. (Psalm 37:9,11,29)
In addition to these biblical facts, we know from other passages that Jesus was dead in the grave for 3 days. We know that, after his resurrection, he then walked the land again for 40 days, appearing to his disciples and hundreds of others. So it's safe to say that he and the thief did not go into Paradise that very day that they died.
Do you see that looking at the whole picture is essential, and thus the placing of the comma is important? Also, it is possible to figure out which placing of it is correct. Would you agree?
Oh dear, why didn't I answer your questions last time?!
Sometimes I'm a slow learner.
Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
You cannot say that what I have written is built upon false interpretations, as I have shown you other examples of the figure of speech that Jesus used at Luke 23:43. Therefore how he said it is not "redundant" or senseless.marco wrote:Thank you for onewithhim. You give instances from past Scripture where "today" is used to mark some important event or statement. We can visit Luke too:onewithhim wrote:
It's interesting that the "today" doesn't sound right to you. I figured that you are better-read than you appear to be with this issue. That way of expression was not unique to this passage in Luke's gospel.
Today a Saviour, who is Messiah the Lord, was born for you in the city of David. This marks an important event.
The disputed statement: I tell you today you will be with me in Paradise can either, as in the examples given, mark something important (being in Paradise TODAY) or it can uselessly mark the day on which the statement is being made, with no date whatsoever attached to the destination in Paradise. The circumstances, shortage of time and near death, would suggest, to Marco at least, that Jesus was communicating something important rather than using a redundant word. I have no reason to opt for either interpretation other than the dictates of common sense. I would hate to think my entire system of belief depended on this interpretation.
But Bible rumours are built on false interpretations.
