This Generation Will Not Pass Away:

[Overcomer]

Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple and signs of the end times in Matt. 24:1-35:

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?� he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.�

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,� they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?�

4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 “Immediately after the distress of those days


“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Verse 34 has been the subject of many a debate. My questions are as follows:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

[marco]

[Replying to post 554 by marco]


How do you know his Father was Yahweh?

In what way or ways is the identification of God problematic?

I can no more identify Yahweh as anybody's father than I can pin down poor Yorick whom Hamlet knew. We are readers of tales, probably most of them made up or based on incidents only vaguely related to what is reported. Even today people are persecuted for challenging the fictions of former times.

Using our broken human tools we may suppose, in our wonder, that a being of immense power created what we see around us and inserted the clever mathematical rules that we chance upon. The nature of this hypothetical being we cannot know, and we are much mistaken if we suppose that poring over superstitious texts from partially educated people will shed light on God or his mansions.

Jesus put a face to the figure of his Father, a nice old gentleman who wants only what is best for us and of a Saturday evening, if we need something, we simply ask and he will administer. The same artless Jesus got a whip, so we are told, and drove out buyers from "his Father's house". Surprisingly, many intelligent people have subscribed to these stories, extracting like bees the nectar of faith and hope, but little charity.

When I was a child, unversed in polysyllables, I chanted: "God is the supreme spirit who alone exists of himself and is infinitely perfect." I didn't know what that meant then and I find it meaningless now, in relation to what we see and know.

I am sure Jesus thought himself special, and thought he would return to the lakes where his friends would still be fishing. Hundreds of pages have since been written with new ideas, new interpretations and a new Christ.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 556 by marco]

Using our broken human tools we may suppose, in our wonder, that a being of immense power created what we see around us and inserted the clever mathematical rules that we chance upon. The nature of this hypothetical being we cannot know, and we are much mistaken.

I do so suppose that he is real, and not just a hypothetical being. Rather, the Supreme Being who put in place those rules you mention that we humans can only chance upon.

Surprisingly, many intelligent people have subscribed to these stories, extracting like bees the nectar of faith and hope, but little charity.

Hundreds of pages have since been written with new ideas, new interpretations and a new Christ.

As Solomon put it:

Ecclesiastes 12:12

My child, there is something else to watch out for. There is no end to the writing of books, and too much study will wear you out.

[marco]

As Solomon put it:

Ecclesiastes 12:12

My child, there is something else to watch out for. There is no end to the writing of books, and too much study will wear you out.

But not as much as 1000 wives and concubines. Shakespeare's characters are fictional but better reflect human highs and lows than does the uxorious Solomon.

Go well.

[Checkpoint]

As Solomon put it:

Ecclesiastes 12:12

My child, there is something else to watch out for. There is no end to the writing of books, and too much study will wear you out.

But not as much as 1000 wives and concubines. Shakespeare's characters are fictional but better reflect human highs and lows than does the uxorious Solomon.

Go well.

Oh yes, Solomon did make himself an easily used whipping boy.

By the way, I did learn something from your post: the existence and meaning of the word "uxorious"!

[marco]

As Solomon put it:

Ecclesiastes 12:12

My child, there is something else to watch out for. There is no end to the writing of books, and too much study will wear you out.

But not as much as 1000 wives and concubines. Shakespeare's characters are fictional but better reflect human highs and lows than does the uxorious Solomon.

Go well.

Oh yes, Solomon did make himself an easily used whipping boy.

By the way, I did learn something from your post: the existence and meaning of the word "uxorious"!

We're straying from the OP. One wonders why there are no relics of such a powerful king and kingdom, whereas older Egyptian rulers have left a lot for us. Solomon is probably the incarnation of wisdom, a man who died as a comparative adolescent, in biblical terms, at 60, probably from physical exhaustion.

If the generation that Christ referred to included Solomon, we are possibly moving into fiction. It is best to suppose Jesus had his ideas in his present day.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 1 by Overcomer]

“Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

Jesus means the generation that sees these things happen.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 552 by marco]

It is absurd to read prediction here. Jesus predicted (maybe); Paul instructed.

Words in sentences have meanings.

Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?� he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.�

The stones have not been thrown down when Jesus is speaking and Jesus says that they will be.

“Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.


Each one of these verbs "will come", "will decieve", "will hear", "will rise", 'will be" are all conjugated in the future tense in the Greek same as they are in English. So this has to be a passage that is predicting the future.

One of the causes of Roman intervention was Jewish refusal to honour Roman gods, preferring Yahweh instead. Yahweh was humiliated in the destruction of his house. His "house" was destroyed and Jupiter was triumphant.

The cause of Roman intervention was that the Jews revolted against Roman. They revolted again somewhere around AD 120 and it was at that time that they totally dispersed the Jewish population from Palestine.

I think it's fair to assume that Jesus never predicted his Father's humiliation and defeat.

God was not defeated in AD70. It was in His will for the Roman empire to exist and be as large as it was and to exist as long as it did. The Roman empire was predicted by Daniel when God gave Nebuchadnezzar the dream about the statue made of gold, silver, and bronze and clay.

This was not a defeat but a fulfillment of other prophecy.

[marco]

Jesus means the generation that sees these things happen.

Jesus was offering advice on an important date. If students asked their professor when their exam would be and he said: "Look for the leaves on the chestnut tree falling and when many fall you will know the time of your exam is close," this answer would be as informative as Christ's.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 563 by marco]

Jesus was offering advice on an important date. If students asked their professor when their exam would be and he said: "Look for the leaves on the chestnut tree falling and when many fall you will know the time of your exam is close," this answer would be as informative as Christ's.

You are comprehending correctly what Jesus was saying. Now just expand your time frame by about 2000 years and you will be right on the money.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 1 by Overcomer]

“Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

Jesus means the generation that sees these things happen.

If so, he would have said"that generation".