Drink jesus' (God's)blood? Eat his flesh?

[Avoice]

Human sacrifice
Drinking blood
Eating human flesh

You cant get any more pagan than this


Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

NOW HERE IS WHAT THE GOD OF ISRAEL SAID THROUGH THE PROPHET ISAIAH.

"They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand. And none considereth in his heart, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say, I have burned part of it in the fire; yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof; I have roasted flesh, and eaten it: and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination? shall I fall down to the stock of a tree? He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?"

THINK!
EAT Jesus/ GOD?
DRINK the blood of Jesus/ GOD?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 171 by 2timothy316]

Essentially this is opening up another thread topic, "The Great Apostasy", and many of the made in America sects, teaching wildly contradictory versions of it: Jehovah's Witnesses, Latter-day Saints, Church of Christ, Christian Science, original Armstrong Worldwide Church of God, etc...rely on it but two small but insurmountable problems:

1. It utterly contradicts history.

2. It utterly contradicts Scripture.

Is 1 John 2:18, 19 false?

[Saber Bob]

[Replying to post 181 by 2timothy316]

Starting a new thread...😎

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 181 by 2timothy316]

Starting a new thread...😎

Its a simple yes or no answer. Is 1 John 2:18, 19 false, making John a liar? I don't need you start a thread to make a simple yes or no answer. Anything less than a clear 'no' I will assume you think John is a liar. Type away but I will not read it until I get clear answer to the question.

[Saber Bob]

[Replying to post 183 by 2timothy316]

John is not a liar, scripture is infallible, but I disagree with your fallible interpretations of it.

However, to claim a Great Apostasy is to flat out claim Jesus was a liar.

[Eloi]

Jesus talked about a great apostasy:

Matt. 13:24 Another illustration he set before them, saying: “The kingdom of the heavens has become like a man that sowed fine seed in his field. 25 While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat, and left. 26 When the blade sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds appeared also. 27 So the slaves of the householder came up and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it come to have weeds?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy, a man, did this.’ They said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ 29 He said, ‘No; that by no chance, while collecting the weeds, YOU uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the harvest season I will tell the reapers, First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up, then go to gathering the wheat into my storehouse.’�
(...) 36 Then after dismissing the crowds he went into the house. And his disciples came to him and said: “Explain to us the illustration of the weeds in the field.� 37 In response he said: “The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; 38 the field is the world; as for the fine seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one, 39 and the enemy that sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels. 40 Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. 41 The Son of man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out from his kingdom all things that cause stumbling and persons who are doing lawlessness, 42 and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where [their] weeping and the gnashing of [their] teeth will be. 43 At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Let him that has ears listen.

Whoever says something different, isn't that one an apostate and antichrist?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 183 by 2timothy316]

John is not a liar, scripture is infallible, but I disagree with your fallible interpretations of it.

I gave no interpretation. I just quoted the scripture.

"Young children, it is the last hour, and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared, from which fact we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out so that it might be shown that not all are of our sort."

There were anitchrists coming out of the Christian congregation even during John's time. Do you agree or not?

However, to claim a Great Apostasy is to flat out claim Jesus was a liar.

"Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves." - Matthew 7:15

You know who said the above right? Jesus was no liar and Paul, Peter and John confirm Jesus was right.

“I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you and will not treat the flock with tenderness, and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.� -Acts 20:27-30

"However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among you. These will quietly bring in destructive sects, and they will even disown the owner who bought them..." -2 Peter 2:1

Are Paul and Peter a liars too? Note I'm just quoting scripture I'm adding no interpretation with it. Do you agree with the scriptures above or not? What did Paul know would happen after his 'going away'?

[2timothy316]

Jesus talked about a great apostasy:

Matt. 13:24 Another illustration he set before them, saying: “The kingdom of the heavens has become like a man that sowed fine seed in his field. 25 While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat, and left. 26 When the blade sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds appeared also. 27 So the slaves of the householder came up and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it come to have weeds?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy, a man, did this.’ They said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ 29 He said, ‘No; that by no chance, while collecting the weeds, YOU uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the harvest season I will tell the reapers, First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up, then go to gathering the wheat into my storehouse.’�
(...) 36 Then after dismissing the crowds he went into the house. And his disciples came to him and said: “Explain to us the illustration of the weeds in the field.� 37 In response he said: “The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; 38 the field is the world; as for the fine seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one, 39 and the enemy that sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels. 40 Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. 41 The Son of man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out from his kingdom all things that cause stumbling and persons who are doing lawlessness, 42 and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where [their] weeping and the gnashing of [their] teeth will be. 43 At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Let him that has ears listen.

Whoever says something different, isn't that one an apostate and antichrist?

I'd like to note that Eloi also has given no interpretation, just quoted scripture. We must ask ourselves do we agree with what Jesus described in the Bible or not?

[Saber Bob]

In your quoted text, in your desire to force a Great Apostasy where there is none, consider, that if it was Great, there wouldonly (or great majority portion) be a field of weeds, only a net of bad fish.

The Great Apostasy, be it JW, LDS, Church of Christ, Unification Church, Christian Science, SDA, even in it's way Islam makes Jesus into a liar, makes the prophets into false prophets.

Even before we get to the disproof texts for the Great Apostasy (GA) let's look at the heresy John was facing in his Epistles and quite likely his Gospel as well, namely, Gnosticism.

A parasite religion, eclectic in nature, while diverging according to teacher and target audience, it shared some common beliefs that remove it from consideration as the source of Eucharistic doctrines. Namely, the Gnostics hated the created material universe, a prison for spirit emanations and flat out denied that the liberating teacher LOGOS/CHRIST ever Incarnated or "embodied", let alone the idea purely corrupt matter could be any sort of conduit of actual saving Grace--the Gnostics would and did jump at the purely symbolic meanings of both Eucharist and Baptism, because pure symbols can be much more manipulated than concrete realities.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 188 by Saber Bob]

Eloi and I are answering in scripture and quoting Jesus, "The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man;  the field is the world; as for the fine seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one, and the enemy that sowed them is the Devil." (Matt 13:37)

Perhaps you are confused as to how the congregation turn into weeds, like the slave of the household who said, "Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it come to have weeds?" (Matt 13:27) Jesus' answer and your answer is, "the enemy who sowed them is the Devil." (Matt 13:38, 39)

The planting of the Seeds started while John, Peter and Paul were still alive and they knew that once they were gone these false prophets would take over the congregation. (Acts 20:27-30, 2 Peter 2:1)

At any rate you're not answering in scripture. Without scripture replies are simply empty with no merit.

[Saber Bob]

[Replying to post 189 by 2timothy316]
I will take my time in my replies 😎.

Another big clue John was dealing with Gnosticism, (the antithesis of Sacramentalism), was his admonition not to have anything to do with those who obsessed with geneologies which could be obscure, unless you read St. Iraneous' Against Heresies in which the ECF ripped through the manifest silliness of Gnostic theology, including an incredible accounting of the generations of spiritual emanations. Scholars used to discount Iraneous' writing as an ignorant and biased screed, until the discovery of several Gnostic texts in the Oxyrynchus (Egypt) middens showed the late 2nd c. Saint was spot on.

Whatever you want to say about historical Christianity, especially Catholicism, it is NOTHING like Gnosticism--why we even waged war against it in the 12 the century! In short, since Gnosticism did not take over in the first centuries of the Christian era,John could not have been claiming a GA.