The Gospel Preached By Jesus

[WeSee]

When Jesus began His ministry he quoted from the Book of Isaiah: 
Luke 4 
16And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read. 17And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And He opened the book and found the place where it was written, 
18“THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME, 
BECAUSE HE ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR. 
HE HAS SENT ME TO PROCLAIM RELEASE TO THE CAPTIVES, 
AND RECOVERY OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND, 
TO SET FREE THOSE WHO ARE OPPRESSED, 
19TO PROCLAIM THE FAVORABLE YEAR OF THE LORD.� 
20And He closed the book, gave it back to the attendant and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.�

Jesus clearly stated His purpose. The purpose for which He was anointed. The purpose for which He is the Christ (Christ means "anointed one" for those who are unaware): 
1) To preach His gospel - These are the words He spoke while preaching His gospel during His ministry. 
2) To give sight to the blind - To open the eyes of those blind to the will of God which is contained in His gospel. 
3) To set free the captives - To FREE those who abide in His word from the slavery of committing sin. To FREE those who abide in His gospel (See John 8). 

That's it in a nutshell. During His ministry, Jesus did exactly what He said He was going to do. This is the gospel preached by Jesus. 

There is no "total depravity of man" in the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry. 
There is no "vicarious atonement for the forgiveness of sins" in the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry. 
There is no "if you believe in the redemptive death and resurrection of Christ you will receive eternal life and live in the Kingdom" in the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry. 
There is no "imputed righteousness" in the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry.

Christianity has a different gospel based on the theology of Paul and others as its foundation.
Shouldn't Christianity have the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry as its foundation?

[2timothy316]

When Jesus began His ministry he quoted from the Book of Isaiah: 
Luke 4 
16And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read. 17And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And He opened the book and found the place where it was written, 
18“THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME, 
BECAUSE HE ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR. 
HE HAS SENT ME TO PROCLAIM RELEASE TO THE CAPTIVES, 
AND RECOVERY OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND, 
TO SET FREE THOSE WHO ARE OPPRESSED, 
19TO PROCLAIM THE FAVORABLE YEAR OF THE LORD.� 
20And He closed the book, gave it back to the attendant and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.�

Jesus clearly stated His purpose. The purpose for which He was anointed. The purpose for which He is the Christ (Christ means "anointed one" for those who are unaware): 
1) To preach His gospel - These are the words He spoke while preaching His gospel during His ministry. 
2) To give sight to the blind - To open the eyes of those blind to the will of God which is contained in His gospel. 
3) To set free the captives - To FREE those who abide in His word from the slavery of committing sin. To FREE those who abide in His gospel (See John 8). 

That's it in a nutshell. During His ministry, Jesus did exactly what He said He was going to do. This is the gospel preached by Jesus. 

There is no "total depravity of man" in the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry. 
There is no "vicarious atonement for the forgiveness of sins" in the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry. 
There is no "if you believe in the redemptive death and resurrection of Christ you will receive eternal life and live in the Kingdom" in the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry. 
There is no "imputed righteousness" in the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry.

Christianity has a different gospel based on the theology of Paul and others as its foundation.
Shouldn't Christianity have the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry as its foundation?

Hello WeSee, before any question is to be addressed, "In this subforum the canon of the Bible is considered authoritative with respect to the historical consensus of the canon's content."? The Bible is accepted as having the final authority. That would include the writings of Paul. Nor do we have to prove what Paul wrote in the Bible is true. Is this acceptable to you?

Link to forum guidelines.
viewtopic.php?t=11496
viewtopic.php?t=3168

[Divine Insight]

Christianity has a different gospel based on the theology of Paul and others as its foundation.

I totally agree.

Shouldn't Christianity have the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry as its foundation?

Again, I totally agree.

Hello WeSee, before any question is to be addressed, "In this subforum the canon of the Bible is considered authoritative with respect to the historical consensus of the canon's content."? Bible is accepted as having the final authority. That would include the writings of Paul. Nor do we have to prove what Paul wrote in the Bible is true. Is this acceptable to you?

Link to forum guidelines.
viewtopic.php?t=11496
viewtopic.php?t=3168

Interesting.

This does then appear that not only does Christendom support placing Paul before Christ, but apparently so does this forum.

@WeSee, Apparently you'll need to post your topic in the Christianity & Apologetics forum. Since this forum recognizes Paul as being just as much of an authority for Christianity as Jesus. Perhaps even more so since the authority of Paul's writings cannot be questioned.

[WeSee]

[Replying to 2timothy316]

I read the links. There didn't seem to be anything there that says or even necessarily implies that everything Paul wrote is to be taken necessarily as "true". Many don't believe that everything Paul wrote is true, the following for example:
Ephesians 5
22Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

If everything in the Bible is to be taken as true without any parts taking precedence over others, it doesn't exactly leave room for debate.

[WeSee]

[Replying to post 3 by Divine Insight]

This does then appear that not only does Christendom support placing Paul before Christ, but apparently so does this forum.

Hopefully 2Timothy316 is mistaken about what the forum guidelines entail. Seems like my topic would very much sit within the realm of "Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma".

[Eloi]

There is not anything in the ministry of Paul which can not be understood from other parts of the Bible, included the words of Jesus himself.

Matt.20:28 Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many.�

Is. 53:11 Because of his anguish, he will see and be satisfied.
By means of his knowledge the righteous one, my servant,
Will bring a righteous standing to many people,
And their errors he will bear.

Paul developed, under the guide of the spirit of God in him, other more detailed forms of saying the same teachings or deducting things from them that correctly lead to other points. Paul is not an inventor of anything at all; he was an inspired person and even the apostoles recognized that:

2 Pet 3:14 Hence, beloved ones, since YOU are awaiting these things, do YOUR utmost to be found finally by him spotless and unblemished and in peace. 15 Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul according to the wisdom given him also wrote YOU, 16 speaking about these things as he does also in all [his] letters. In them, however, are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unsteady are twisting, as [they do] also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

[Divine Insight]

There is not anything in the ministry of Paul which can not be understood from other parts of the Bible, included the words of Jesus himself.

I disagree. Paul did not teach the same message as Jesus.

Jesus taught that 99% of people who make it into heaven do so on their own merit.

Paul taught that all men are sinners and must be saved via the free gift of grace.

Paul developed, under the guide of the spirit of God in him, other more detailed forms of saying the same teachings or deducting things from them that correctly lead to other points. Paul is not an inventor of anything at all; he was an inspired person and even the apostoles recognized that:

There are two problems with this.

The first problem is the one mentioned above. Paul did not teach the same things as Jesus.

The second problem is that there should have been no need for God to use Paul to teach what Jesus had already taught. This would only suggest that Jesus failed to make his message clear.

Not only this, but where does Jesus prophesize the coming of Paul? He doesn't. He doesn't even remotely suggest that anyone would be coming to clear up what he failed to do. In fact, Jesus taught quite the opposite. Jesus warned that false prophets would be coming in his name. So the most rational conclusion is that Paul was a false prophet that Jesus warned about.

Those who put Paul above Jesus are not following Jesus, instead they are following the false prophet that Jesus warned would surely come.

If I were going to believe in Jesus I would most certainly renounce Paul as clearly being a false prophet that Jesus prophesied would come.

[JehovahsWitness]

Jesus taught that 99% of people who make it into heaven do so on their own merit.

Paul taught that all men are sinners and must be saved via the free gift of grace.

Perhaps you could provide some scriptural evidence to support this view.


JW

[Eloi]

Paul did not teach anything different that what Jesus taught. If you want to talk about those points you assume are so, it would be a good idea to open a post about that, so we can see if they are really different, or if it is just that you don't have enought information about the matters and are arriving to a wrong conclusion. As I said before, it is not that the teaching of Paul were new or old, it is about the underlying ideas in Paul's words. Paul can say things in different ways than Jesus, or even new things, since the same things can be said more deeply, with different words, or even different things could be deduced from things already said.

For Jehovah's Witnesses, all Scripture is inspired, the holy spirit is behind it causing things to be written and revealed just as God wants them to be gathered in his Word. We do not conceive of anything written in the entire Bible, be it at the hands of Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Solomon, David, Matthew, ..., or Paul, which does not have in common the same source of origin. That origen is divine even if men were the instruments. We find in the Bible the subyacent ideas to understand the whole ... not like others trying to find holes to avoid some parts they don't agree with, or they simply have not come to understand what they want to put aside, or how the issue of Bible inspiration works.

[JehovahsWitness]

.... where does Jesus prophesize the coming of Paul?

I have already posted the answer to this question, here is the post in ca see you missed it,
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 346#950346