If you don't trust the Bible, Where do you look for truth?

[2timothy316]

What say you?
Also, if you don't see an option in the vote then add it in a comment.

[RightReason]

[Replying to 2timothy316]

It's not an excuse. it's just a fact. I'm not adding anything to that scripture and yet you're saying that my interpretation is wrong when I have given no interpretation.

You are assuming you your own personal time table for the gifts of prophecy.

This is 1 Cor 13:8 "But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with."

I don’t see anywhere where it says when and in fact, I already pointed out how a better understanding of Scripture is to acknowledge Paul is talking about the consummation of all things and the end of the age in that passage.

Of course, if you are uncertain, you can see what the Church has to say and the Church agrees.

Quote:
That would be like saying God wants us all to cut our arms and legs off because of Matthew 5:30

Yet the Bible explains that Jesus would speak in illustrations (Matt 13:34.). However, there is no indication that 1 Cor 13:8 is an illustration.

What are you talking about? If the Bible explains Jesus will speak in illustrations, then it means some parts of the Bible are to be taken literally, others figuratively. It means sometimes in the Bible Jesus may be speaking about something that will immediately occur and other times be speaking about something that is to come. One can determine the correct instance by studying context and a proper reading of Scripture as a whole. And then of course, is one unclear then one should turn to Christ’s established Church. She is in charge of safeguarding and interpreting Sacred Scripture.

Better get to work then so far these 'examples' you have provided are not convincing enough to over-turn 1 Cor 13:8.

There is nothing to overturn in Corinthians. What is easily overturned is your erroneous understanding of Corinthians.

Ah yes I have witnessed people that 'speak in tongues' too. Complete gibberish is what I saw and there was no one there that could understand what the other was saying.

There are instances when those who have been given the gift of interpretation are able to understand what someone speaking in tongues is saying. Also, even if we can’t understand what the person is saying, it is typically evident it is a pouring out of praise and worship to God.

Yes, of course, as with anything there can be fraud – doesn’t mean everything is a fraud.

Try again to debunk 1 Cor 13:8

There is nothing in 1 Cor 13:8 to debunk. For Christ and His Church its meaning is clear.

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to post 71 by RightReason]

There's no denying that prophecy is a spiritual gift, even today, but we must understand what prophecy is today. There is an undeniable difference between the prophets of the Old Testament and prophets since Christ came. Yes, we are indeed prophets, but we do not relate new words of God to His people. We are able, however, to relate the words of God, the Bible, to others, and we are commanded to do so, but they have been related before (by the prophets of old). Even Paul, Peter, James, etc., were not prophets in the original sense of being God's mouthpieces to His people. In like manner, when Jesus came, there were no more priests and kings in the sense of the Levitical priesthood and the kings of Israel. Paul, Peter, James, etc., were not priests or kings in the original sense of being lesser mediators to God on behalf of His people. Paul, Peter, James, and the other nine were rather apostles, and as such the first pastors, teachers, and evangelists (prophets, priests, and kings in a lesser sense). We are not apostles, but follow in their footsteps.

In 1 Corinthians 13:8, when Paul says, "...it will be done away," he is talking about when Jesus returns. The whole of Paul's letter to the Church at Corinth is how they should behave today in view of Christ's return, which is surely coming.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to 2timothy316]

It's not an excuse. it's just a fact. I'm not adding anything to that scripture and yet you're saying that my interpretation is wrong when I have given no interpretation.

You are assuming you your own personal time table for the gifts of prophecy.

Nope. Its not my time table I am looking at. In fact the Bible only say they will stop. What exact year did they stop, I don't know. I just simply look at the world around me and not seeing anything that comes close the gifts Paul, Matthew, James, Peter etc had. So it is clear those gifts are no longer around. I have seen nothing the compares to what those men did in the first century to what is is trying to be sold today as 'gifts'.

[2timothy316]

There are instances when those who have been given the gift of interpretation are able to understand what someone speaking in tongues is saying. Also, even if we can’t understand what the person is saying, it is typically evident it is a pouring out of praise and worship to God.

Yet the Bible says the speaking in tongues was not to show a pouring of praise and worship to God. It was to preach about God to those of all the Earth. Acts the 2nd chapter the people were speaking real languages. "Parʹthi·ans, Medes, and Eʹlam·ites, the inhabitants of Mes·o·po·taʹmi·a, Ju·deʹa and Cap·pa·doʹci·a, Ponʹtus and the province of Asia, Phrygʹi·a and Pam·phylʹi·a, Egypt and the regions of Libʹy·a near Cy·reʹne, sojourners from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Creʹtans, and Arabians—we hear them speaking in our languages about the magnificent things of God." (Acts 2 9-11)

When a group of people stand in a circle and chant gibberish that no on in the circle and understand, what is the point? No one is hearing "the magnificent things of God". It's not declaring the Gospel to strangers like it did at Pentecost 33 CE.

Yes, of course, as with anything there can be fraud – doesn’t mean everything is a fraud.

Fraud indeed. The people I know of that speak "about the magnificent things of God" in other languages put in hard work to learn a new language. The miracle is that there are people that even care enough to do learn a new language, a real language that is actually useful to strangers.

You will have to produce a person that suddenly speaks in a real foreign language with absolutely no training, not even having ever heard the language but can suddenly speak it. Until then, frauds are what I see in your examples and they are not drawing any attention to the Almighty God but only to themselves.

[RightReason]

[Replying to PinSeeker]

There's no denying that prophecy is a spiritual gift, even today

Clearly, some like Timothy do in fact what to most Christians is evident

Yes, we are indeed prophets, but we do not relate new words of God to His people.

Define new. Christ gave authority to His Church from the beginning.

We are able, however, to relate the words of God, the Bible, to others, and we are commanded to do so, but they have been related before (by the prophets of old).

But some even try to argue that. Christians say Scripture is clear regarding the Trinity and others say, Scripture doesn’t talk about the Trinity. This is why Christ established His Church. We turn to His Church and she says, yep Trinity is essential part of the Christian faith. She can shows this via Scripture – Of course there are always those who try to claim it isn’t clear in Scripture – again, proving the need for the Church.

Even Paul, Peter, James, etc., were not prophets in the original sense of being God's mouthpieces to His people.

That sounds contrary to Scripture . . .

“He who hears you, hears me�
“I give to you the keys to the kingdom�
“Whatever you bind on earth, shall be bound in heaven�
“Whatever you lose on earth, shall be loosed in heaven�
The church is ‘the pillar and foundation of truth’
“And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.�

[RightReason]

[Replying to post 73 by 2timothy316]

Nope. Its not my time table I am looking at. In fact the Bible only say they will stop.

Yep, which His Church tells us Paul is talking about the consummation of all things and the end of the age. You miss it.

I just simply look at the world around me and not seeing anything that comes close the gifts Paul, Matthew, James, Peter etc had.

That’s too bad. Lots and lots of recorded testimony from your fellow Christians saying otherwise.

I have seen nothing the compares to what those men did in the first century to what is is trying to be sold today as 'gifts'.

Again, that’s a shame.

15For this people’s heart has grown callous; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.’ 16But blessed are your eyesbecause they see, and your ears because they hear.17For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.… -Matthew 13:16

[onewithhim]

There is no other source for the truth. Saint Paul said that we are not to trust "traditions" that differ with what he and the Apostles taught. When we look at the traditions of the Tare-like institutions that have existed since the early second century, we can see that they differ very much from what Jesus and his disciples taught.

"Withdraw from every brother who is walking disorderly and not according to the tradition that you received from US." (2 Thessalonians 3:6)

[onewithhim]

What say you?
Also, if you don't see an option in the vote then add it in a comment.

Where do I look for truth? From God. If you consider the Bible your sole source of truth, isn't that making a god out of the Bible?

I wouldn't say so. We are just reading a message from God, as he inspired many men to write it. I don't know how that is making a god out of it.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 8 by JehovahsWitness]

...accept everything in the bible as the Word of God

Did God say...

God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

Is there any place within the bible that suggests that the bible is the word of God? Are there any claims made by the authors that the scriptures inspired by God are actually God's word?

Well, Jesus knew the Scriptures very well, and I believe he referred to them as the Word of God. What else would he be referring to?

He said to Jehovah: "Your word is truth." (John 17:17)

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 41 by tam]

Again, how do you receive the truth if not through the Bible? Is it a voice you hear?