Do you think these Episcopalian clergy are correct?

[polonius]

From the (British) Telegraph

UK NEWS

One third of clergy do not believe in the Resurrection
By Jonathan Petre, Religion Correspondent

A third of Church of England clergy doubt or disbelieve in the physical Resurrection and only half are convinced of the truth of the Virgin birth, according to a new survey.

The poll of nearly 2,000 of the Church's 10,000 clergy also found that only half believe that faith in Christ is the only route to salvation.

While it has long been known that numerous clerics are dubious about the historic creeds of the Church, the survey is the first to disclose how widespread is the skepticism.

[Elijah John]

No.

Seems to me it would make one think that maybe there aren't nearly as many Christians as claim to be...

RESPONSE: Either that or Christians aren't nearly as uninformed as they used to be.

Yeah, maybe they all got together and had a seance and questioned Paul in person, and he confessed...

Aha, a chance to go into speculation mode, it seems.

Maybe some have found a good spectator sport and are commenting from the grandstand.

A grandstand in the peanut gallery.

You said it!

The skeptic expects a rat, and finds it.

A believer expects the best, and finds it.

"Seek, and you shall find, knock and..."

And the skeptic sometimes finds the real Jesus, the historical Jesus. who glorified the Father alone, and sought no glory for himself. (this despite the "high Christology" and theological rhetoric of the fourth Gospel, which scholars consider the least reliable.)

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 1 by polonius]

No, they are not correct, and with their attitude about what the Bible says they never should have been given the job of representing the Christian faith.

[onewithhim]

From the (British) Telegraph

UK NEWS

One third of clergy do not believe in the Resurrection
By Jonathan Petre, Religion Correspondent

A third of Church of England clergy doubt or disbelieve in the physical Resurrection and only half are convinced of the truth of the Virgin birth, according to a new survey.

The poll of nearly 2,000 of the Church's 10,000 clergy also found that only half believe that faith in Christ is the only route to salvation.

While it has long been known that numerous clerics are dubious about the historic creeds of the Church, the survey is the first to disclose how widespread is the skepticism.

The creeds of the church were originally the confessions of the church fathers. Their confession of faith was their witness of Christ manifesting in their lives. Today, people can't confess to Christ manifesting in their lives. They can only regurgitate what they've been taught.

Doubting a physical resurrection doesn't make one skeptical, nor does it prevent one from counting themselves as a Christian. Christ's teachings specifically point out that one needs to deny themselves. Self denial or self sacrifice is the cornerstone of Christianity, and yet people would rather define their faith by believing that Jesus was bodily resurrected rather than deny their own lives. Jesus was clear in pointing out that those who would save their own lives would lose them, while those who would lose their lives (i.e. deny themselves) for his sake would live.

Who needs that when it's just so much easier to pretend that a profession of faith aka "lip service" is all one needs to get into heaven?

I have to disagree with your statement, "Doubting a physical resurrection doesn't ...prevent one from counting themselves as a Christian." I agree with Paul when he said that if Christ's resurrection didn't happen, we are to be pitied, and our faith is useless. (I Corinthians 15:14-19) So, the belief in the resurrection is necessary if one wants to call himself a Christian.

Now, having said that, there is another point that has to be made. There are two resurrections---the first and then the second. (Revelation 20:5,6) The first resurrection is a bringing back to life in the spirit realm, with spirit bodies just like God has (John 4:24). The second resurrection is a physical body resurrection. Those people will be given their physical life back, to dwell on this planet forever. (Psalm 37: 9,11,29)

Jesus did not have a bodily resurrection. If he had been raised in his physical body, that would have been tantamount to taking back his sacrifice, and we would still be in our sins. No, he gave up his physical life on Earth. He was raised as a spirit person, as God is.

"'The first man Adam became a living soul.' [Genesis 2:7] The last Adam [Christ] became a life-giving spirit." (I Corinthians 15:45)

"Even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, that he might lead you to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit." (I Peter 3:18)


But can we say that being raised "in the spirit" isn't really a resurrection? Why would we think that? The spirit realm is just as real as our physical realm. Aren't God and the angels spirits? Now so is Christ. Paul says to Timothy about Jesus:

"The one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see." (I Timothy 6:16) Sounds like something other than a physical realm, doesn't it? He will remain in that realm that no man can see, and will rule over the people on the earth for a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6b)

[onewithhim]

Perhaps the skeptical clergy are right, and they, like Episcopal Bishop John Shelby Spong have discovered the real Jesus, the historical Jesus who sought only to glorify the Father, and not himself.

You are right about that! Jesus never wanted to glorify himself. He always pointed to the Father as "all things," and it says that after the Thousand Year Reign he will hand back the Kingdom to God, his Father, so that God "may be all things to everyone." (I Corinthians 15:24-28)