"Jesus said..."

[polonius]

Many "believers" use the claim about some subject that "Jesus said..."as proof for some doctrines.

Perhaps they overlook the dating of New Testament authorship.

Jesus lived from about 4 BC (Matthew) and died about 30 -33 AD.

Paul never knew Jesus in the flesh.

The gospels were written between 70 and 95 AD by non-witnesses.

Jesus left no writings himself.

So we really don't know what Jesus actually said.

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 18 by brianbbs67]

There was no magic involved. There is or was no such thing as Christianity. Sure that's what its called. Christ was a devout Hebrew and never claimed different. The early followers of the Way of Christ, followed the way of christ. The apostles and disciples followed the way of christ. We follow, but some now say we aren't because we are? The modern church is the non sense. Follow Christ and you are a Judiazer, but , wait, christ was a Jew. There is a way that seems right unto man which leads straight to death.

I find most your statements difficult to understand.

The question of the OP is whether the gospels accurately contain the words of Jesus. Various reasons ahve been launched as to why they do not; I have answered those reasons--they are based on faulty logic and faulty history.

Whatever point you are trying to make above does not seem to have any bearing on this issue. If I had to guess, I would say your point is that the deity of Jesus was not taught by the earliest church: that neither Paul, nor Jesus nor any of Jesus' disciples taught or believed in his preexistence or deity. I certainly disagree with this, but is that the issue of this OP?

[polonius]

[Replying to post 8 by JJ50]

We have absolutely no idea what the real Jesus was really like, the gospel writers stories accounts of his life and utterances were written many years after he was dead. Much of which was not credible.

That is the view of skeptics, of which there are many.

Believers, of which there are many, see no real reason to question what is written in the Gospels as to what Jesus said.

RESPONSE: So you have no difficulty in believing what non-witnesses who never knew Jesus in the flesh wrote 40-60 years after his death?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 1 by polonius]

So we really don't know what Jesus actually said.

We cannot absolutely prove he said what the Gospels report, and we cannot absolutely prove he did not say what the Gospels report.

So?

[polonius]

[Replying to post 1 by polonius]

So we really don't know what Jesus actually said.

We cannot absolutely prove he said what the Gospels report, and we cannot absolutely prove he did not say what the Gospels report.

So?

RESPONSE: You cannot "absolutely " believe virtually anything,

But something written say 50 years after Jesus' death by a non witness is pretty uncertain.

If someone told you that God revealed to him that if you gave a certain person all your money you would go to heaven, would you believe him? Would you send him your money, since you cannot be absolutely sure God didn't reveal it that to that person?

I'm fairly certain that you can find some people that will make that claim and send you their address so you can send them a check. "Ya just gotta believe, right?

[polonius]

Mark was a very common name in the first century. But scholars from studying the writing of someone later named Mark the Evangelist have made some interisting observations.


www.thoughtco.com/mark-the-evangelist-p ... phy-248816

“Because of the reference to the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 CE (Mark 13:2), most scholars believe that Mark was written some time during the war between Rome and the Jews (66-74). Most early dates fall around 65 CE and most late dates fall around 75 CE. (NB. Peter is reported to have been martyred in 64 AD along with Paul) This means that Mark the author likely would have been younger than Jesus and his companions. Legend has it that he died a martyr and was buried in Venice.�

“There is evidence that the author of Mark may have been Jewish or had a Jewish background. Many scholars argue that the gospel has a Semitic flavor to it, meaning there are Semitic syntactical features occurring in the context of Greek words and sentences. Many scholars believe that Mark may have come from someplace like Tyre or Sidon. It’s close enough to Galilee to be familiar with its customs and habits, but far enough away that the fictions he includes wouldn’t arouse complaint.�

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 24 by polonius]

"Ya just gotta believe, right?

Try it sometime - you might like it more than you expected!

Is your cup half full or half empty?

[polonius]

[Replying to post 24 by polonius]

"Ya just gotta believe, right?

Try it sometime - you might like it more than you expected!

Is your cup half full or half empty?

RESPONSE: I prefer to separate fact from fiction.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 24 by polonius]

"Ya just gotta believe, right?

Try it sometime - you might like it more than you expected!

Your suggestion is equivalent to saying grab your feet and lift yourself off the ground. You can't just choose to believe something. Perhaps you should try it sometime. Try believing that there are blue Smurfs living on Mars. If you can't, ask yourself why not.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 24 by polonius]

"Ya just gotta believe, right?

Try it sometime - you might like it more than you expected!

Is your cup half full or half empty?

RESPONSE: I prefer to separate fact from fiction.

The fact is, Jesus is reported to have said:

Matthew 24:35b

...my words will never pass away.

[polonius]

Checkpoint posted:

The fact is, Jesus is reported to have said:

Matthew 24:35b

...my words will never pass away.

RESPONSE:

Let's see. The person who "reported" this claim was not a witness and what is reported was written about 50 years after the fact.

Do you believe everything that the gospels report, or do accept the fact that some of it is clearly in error?

"If these claims are correct, early Christians did not link the four New Testament Gospels to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John because these individuals actually wrote the Gospels. The Gospels were, according to Bart Ehrman and many others, originally anonymous. According to this reconstruction, early Christians forged apostolic links in the second century in order to make these documents seem more authoritative. Ehrman’s proof for this supposition is the “wide variety� of different titles found among the Gospel manuscripts."

And if you look it up you will find that the gospel of Matthew was anonymously written (as were all of the gospels) , and only named by Papias about 135 AD.