Incorrect belief.

[postroad]

Some would say not believing in Jesus is an incorrect belief leading to damnation. But what about beliefs based on incorrect doctrines. Do they need to be repented from as a sin leading to damnation?

[Sojournerofthearth]

[Replying to post 3 by showme]

Blasphemy of the Spirit was called unforgivable. Aren't people who claim the Spirit blaspheming it by their sinful actions?

No... Blaspheming the Spirit is what would fall into the "presumptuous sin," category. You would have to be completely aware of what was going on, well versed in what you were doing and blatantly disregarding it.

The Pharisees, for instance, knowing that Jesus came from God, (see John 3:2) were jealous of Christ's growing popularity among the crowds. These guys were not just some schmuck schlepping along trying to figure it all out. They were supposed to the the teachers of Israel. They were supposed to be God's Guys. They should have been front and center of the Apostles. But they were seething. They were overcome with malice against every word He spoke... and did any and everything they could think of to discredit Him.

The people believed he might be the Messiah... they Pharisees said he was doing His miracles by the power of Satan. The healed blind man said he didn't know who the man was who healed him but what he did KNOW was that "Since the world began it has been unheard of that anyone opened the eyes of one who was born blind. If this Man were not from God, He could do nothing." And their response to that was putting him out of the Synagogue.

They were supposed to be waiting for the Messiah. They didn't want to give up their place. They would not have that man to rule over them. These teachers of God, of what was holy and unholy, clean and unclean, what was good and right and what was evil and wrong, they turned on the very one they were supposed to be serving for their own position.

They blasphemed the Holy Spirit of GOD.

According to the Bible, if one is so inclined...

Soj

[JJ50]

In my opinion all religions are human productions, there is no TRUE religion.

[Sojournerofthearth]

In my opinion all religions are human productions, there is no TRUE religion.

I can see where one might think that.... There are a lot of roads that seem to lead to nowhere. I, of course, do not agree with that statement. I am certain that there is a right path to follow and a myriad of ways that seem right to a man, but the end of them are death.

But I've spent my whole life trying to find that narrow constricted path that leads to life.

So, we'll have to see.

Soj

[Sojournerofthearth]

[Replying to post 11 by Sojournerofthearth]

They blasphemed the Holy Spirit of GOD.

So, I reread this... and would have loved to edit the above statement. Christ, in Mat. 12, warned the Pharisees that their actions, their blatant accusations would bring Judgment on them... whether or not they came to that point of Blaspheming the Spirit of God isn't for me to say. In John 9, where He healed the blind man, and the Pharisees threw him out of the Synagogue, Christ told the man healed, that He came into the world to give sight to the blind and to blindness to those who could see. The Pharisees asked him, ARE WE BLIND? And His reply was, because you say you see, your sin remains... but maybe, at some point they actually repented.

Condemnation is not my call. I'm no one's judge.

Soj

[myth-one.com]

Blasphemy of the Spirit was called unforgivable. Aren't people who claim the Spirit blaspheming it by their sinful actions?

Under the New Testament covenant, all sin is forgivable with the exception of one! That one unforgivable sin is, as you correctly claimed, blasphemy against the Holy Ghost:

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven. (Luke 12:10)

The biblical definition of blasphemy is assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God:

Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

As originally created, there were two differences between mankind and God. Those differences were knowledge of good and evil, and body type.

Mankind became closer to being Gods by eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

The one remaining difference is body type -- physical versus spiritual!

But the vast majority of Christian denominations teach that mankind is born with an immortal soul which will live eternally in one of two places -- Heaven or hell.

But if blasphemy is the crime of assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God, and believing that one is born with an immortal soul assumes the eternal life quality of God, then are those who believe the immortal soul myth committing the unforgivable sin?

The answer certainly seems to be yes!

In fact, this is a common belief in virtually every Christian religious denomination of which I am aware. Is this belief in man's immortality supported in the scriptures? It most certainly is:

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (Genesis 3:4)

Satan lied when he informed Eve that she would live forever, "Ye shall not surely die."

Are we all doomed?

No, because it would not be blasphemous to believe you are immortal like God, if you did not realize that you were committing blasphemy. You were ignorant of the fact that it was a sin:

For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. (Romans 5:13)

Religious leaders with doctoral degrees teach the immortal soul myth as truth. So up until this time, their followers have not been imputed with committing the unforgivable sin as they were ignorant of the meaning of that law.

Until now, they have accepted a misinterpretation as fact.

This post may cause them some consternation.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 15 by myth-one.com]

Is not the second covenant, like the first? Consult Jeremiah. God's law written on our hearts. So we have the instructions, Torah. We just need to do them.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to post 15 by myth-one.com]

Is not the second covenant, like the first? Consult Jeremiah. God's law written on our hearts. So we have the instructions, Torah. We just need to do them.

No, the first covenant contained at least one fault:

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. (Hebrews 8:6-7)

[Sojournerofthearth]

[Replying to post 15 by myth-one.com]

I'm not sure what your religious views are... and I'm not one to get in the way of a fella's philosophical preference... or to get all bent outa shape over someone creating castles in the sky, but... I am sort of a stickler when it comes to skewing scripture.

This post may cause them some consternation.

Well, not with me... but I'm not one to get all he't up....

But the vast majority of Christian denominations teach that mankind is born with an immortal soul which will live eternally in one of two places -- Heaven or hell. ... In fact, this is a common belief in virtually every Christian religious denomination of which I am aware. Is this belief in man's immortality supported in the scriptures? It most certainly is:

So... you should probably say, the vast majority of mainstream christians.... because I know quite a number of folks who consider themselves Christian but don't believe in,
a. Immortality of the soul
b. Eternity in Heaven
c. Eternity in Hell

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (Genesis 3:4)

Yeah, so... it also said in Genesis 2:17 ... in the day that you eat thereof, you shall surely die. And Jesus told the Pharisees, Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

He lied... He said they would be like god, determining for themselves good and evil, and that they wouldn't die... and he was the cause of their death and the death of their children ever since... so from the very beginning he was a murderer. Because, you see, a soul does not live eternally.
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. But the gift of GOD is eternal life.
The wages of sin is... what? Eternity in hellfire? The wages of sin is death. (Romans 6:23)

The Unpardonable sin, is any sin not repented of... it is a sin where you are so dug into what YOU want, you refuse to do what you KNOW is right. Heb 10:26  For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, ... and that is the basis for blaspheming the Spirit... it is knowing better and refusing to change... like the Pharisees. They knew they were wrong... but they didn't care. They wanted what they wanted.

It is good that one man die for the people. It's in OUR best interest. And they took it all the way to finish... but, if they repented, if they turned away from even that... God would still have forgiven them.

According to the Bible, if one is so inclined.

Soj

[Sojournerofthearth]

[Replying to post 15 by myth-one.com]

Is not the second covenant, like the first? Consult Jeremiah. God's law written on our hearts. So we have the instructions, Torah. We just need to do them.

No, the first covenant contained at least one fault:

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. (Hebrews 8:6-7)

Well, I think you missed a verse...

Heb 8:8  For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 

The problem wasn't the Covenant. It wasn't the law. It was the people. They couldn't do it.

Deu 5:28  And the LORD heard the voice of your words, when ye spake unto me; and the LORD said unto me, I have heard the voice of the words of this people, which they have spoken unto thee: (Exo_19:8  And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.) they have well said all that they have spoken. 
Deu 5:29  O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever! 

So you see, they were missing a key ingredient. They had no heart in them to do God's law. Which is why God said in his New Covenant, he would write the law in the hearts of men instead of in tables of stone... He said they had hearts of stone... They couldn't accept his law... which is why Christ told the Apostles, John 14:26  But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
The missing ingredient was the Spirit of God. It would put God's law into their hearts. And on the Day of Pentecost, they received the Spirit of God.
Acts 1:4-8  And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.  (5)  For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.  (6)  When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?  (7)  And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.  (8)  But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

The New Covenant is all about a change of heart... not a change of the law.

According to the Bible, if one is so inclined.

Soj

[myth-one.com]

The Unpardonable sin, is any sin not repented of...

Sins which can be repented of are pardonable sins.

The unpardonable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost:

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. (Matthew 12:31)

But the vast majority of Christian denominations teach that mankind is born with an immortal soul which will live eternally in one of two places -- Heaven or hell. ... In fact, this is a common belief in virtually every Christian religious denomination of which I am aware.

So... you should probably say, the vast majority of mainstream christians.... because I know quite a number of folks who consider themselves Christian but don't believe in,
a. Immortality of the soul
b. Eternity in Heaven
c. Eternity in Hell

Yes, I've know a number of folks who called themselves Christian who did not even believe in Jesus Christ.

But anyway, you agree that the vast majority of mainstream Christians believe in the immortality of mankind's soul.

Moving on, do you believe those Christians have committed blasphemy of God by assuming to themselves the Godly characteristic of immortality?

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (Genesis 3:4)

Yeah, so... it also said in Genesis 2:17 ... in the day that you eat thereof, you shall surely die.

He lied... He said they would be like god, determining for themselves good and evil, and that they wouldn't die...

They determined for themselves what they would do, and they died being mortals.

It is good that one man die for the people. It's in OUR best interest.

Jesus was a man. As such, His first death was appointed:

And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Hebrews 9:27)

If it was appointed, He could not avoid it.