Christ

[Greatest I Am]

I see a decline of the Christian faith happening in today's world. This trend will continue.
Is there anything other than a new Christ that can happen to reinvigorate the Church.
Jesus promised to return but has not as yet chosen to do so. 2000 years is a long time. Even on God timetable it has been two days "biblical reckoning".

Total annihilation of man is presently possible. Is this not enough for either Jesus the Christ or a new Christ to appear.
The belief in Jesus as the Christ took miracles to kick start belief in Him.
Would a new Christ need to perform miracles to be believed.

Regards
DL

[ken1burton]

Greatest I am.

It just so happens God has arraigned something. It is still 22 years off, But what is 22 years in God’s sight.

The Jewish Nation was put into a Deep sleep in Isaiah, that sleep is from seeing Jesus was the Messiah, the Alarm Clock is about to go off. And when Israel sees that Jesus is the Messiah (By seeing Scripture, I am not in any way referring to a Second coming as people call it) Then most of the World will convert.

Isaiah 29: 10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.


God’s TimeTable:

Joshua 3: 3 And they commanded the people, saying, When ye see the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, and the priests the Levites bearing it, then ye shall remove from your place, and go after it.
4 Yet there shall be a space between you and it, about two thousand cubits by measure: come not near unto it, that ye may know the way by which ye must go: for ye have not passed this way heretofore.

God speaks in Similitudes:

Hosea 12: 10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

Joshua 3:3 refers to when the Children of Israel were to enter the Promise land, The day of the Cross they saw the Ark (Jesus Christ) being lifted up by the Priest in a place called Golgotha. That was in 29 A.D. (Our calendar is four years off) the cubits is a Similitude for 2,000 years later, FOLLOW HIM. Or in 2029 A.D.

The Day of the Cross is seen as 2,000 years in Psalms 90:4 and Ecclesiastes 6:6, then 2,000 years from the Cross till 2029 A.D. Seen as the River is measured in Ezekiel’s temple vision. At the Fourth 1,000 cubit measurement of the river, the Waters flow into the sea and the Sea is healed or Israel sees Jesus is the Messiah.

Ezekiel 47: 8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.

Then where ever the Gospel goes, the people seen as waters are healed.


9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.

Fishers of men, You need BIGGER NETS.

10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.

Much BIGGER NETS.

There will be a few holdouts, so we do not put our Bibles on the Shelf:

11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.

This is preceded by seven years of burning the Weapons, or every argument against Jesus being the Christ will be burned up by God’s word like as a fire (Jeremiah 23:29). Then seven months of burying the bones or putting all the prophecies in the Correct order.

Starts in Ezekiel 39: 7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.
8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken.
9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

2021 the weapons or arguments start to be burned away. 2028 they place the prophecies in order, 2029 A.D. they see that Jesus is the Christ and follow.

Amos 3: 7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Ken

[Goat]

Greatest I am.

It just so happens God has arraigned something. It is still 22 years off, But what is 22 years in God’s sight.

The Jewish Nation was put into a Deep sleep in Isaiah, that sleep is from seeing Jesus was the Messiah, the Alarm Clock is about to go off. And when Israel sees that Jesus is the Messiah (By seeing Scripture, I am not in any way referring to a Second coming as people call it) Then most of the World will convert.

Isaiah 29: 10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.


God’s TimeTable:

Joshua 3: 3 And they commanded the people, saying, When ye see the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, and the priests the Levites bearing it, then ye shall remove from your place, and go after it.
4 Yet there shall be a space between you and it, about two thousand cubits by measure: come not near unto it, that ye may know the way by which ye must go: for ye have not passed this way heretofore.

God speaks in Similitudes:

Hosea 12: 10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

Joshua 3:3 refers to when the Children of Israel were to enter the Promise land, The day of the Cross they saw the Ark (Jesus Christ) being lifted up by the Priest in a place called Golgotha. That was in 29 A.D. (Our calendar is four years off) the cubits is a Similitude for 2,000 years later, FOLLOW HIM. Or in 2029 A.D.

The Day of the Cross is seen as 2,000 years in Psalms 90:4 and Ecclesiastes 6:6, then 2,000 years from the Cross till 2029 A.D. Seen as the River is measured in Ezekiel’s temple vision. At the Fourth 1,000 cubit measurement of the river, the Waters flow into the sea and the Sea is healed or Israel sees Jesus is the Messiah.

Ezekiel 47: 8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.

Then where ever the Gospel goes, the people seen as waters are healed.


9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.

Fishers of men, You need BIGGER NETS.

10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.

Much BIGGER NETS.

There will be a few holdouts, so we do not put our Bibles on the Shelf:

11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.

This is preceded by seven years of burning the Weapons, or every argument against Jesus being the Christ will be burned up by God’s word like as a fire (Jeremiah 23:29). Then seven months of burying the bones or putting all the prophecies in the Correct order.

Starts in Ezekiel 39: 7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.
8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken.
9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

2021 the weapons or arguments start to be burned away. 2028 they place the prophecies in order, 2029 A.D. they see that Jesus is the Christ and follow.

Amos 3: 7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Ken

You are taking a whole bunch of unrelated single lines out of context in Tankah, and then trying to impose 'prophecy' on them. It just doesn't work that way. If you are alive in 2030, you will realise that your 'prediction' was wrong. If you were honest, then you would admit your whole eschology about the prophecies is nonsense, and should be abandoned.. but I rather suspect that you will just revise your time table.

[ken1burton]

Goat.

We will both be alive in 2029 A.D., Alive on earth? Maybe.

I am not predicting anything really, I am saying the Bible is showing this. I gave references so it can be searched out, and as far as single lines, I image the longest book ever written was made of single lines, one after another, Or should we say one letter of the Alphabet after another, with a few spaces, a few quotation marks, and a few carriage returns.

If the verses do not relate to the concept, I would like to see how. You may have a hundred Scriptural Verses you feel show this, But without one to support what you are saying, it is just an Opinion.

Time=Creation Story in 3975 B.C. (Only a Similitude) to the Baptism in 25 A.D. (Calendar is four years off) or 4,000 years.

Times= The day of the Cross is seen as 2,000 years:

Psalms 90: 4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

Ecclesiastes 6: 6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told , yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

The Half a time seen in Revelation, Seen as the Dividing of time in Daniel, or from the Cross till 2029 A.D. And Israel who is the Woman in Revelation chapter 12 sees the Face of the Serpent, and Who is it Israel can not see in the Old Testament? The day of the Cross? Or in the last 2,000 years since then?

John 3: 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

His days seen as Nothing, so the time of His earthly physical Ministry is not seen in the Math.

Ken

PS. I try not to say what I would or would not do in a given circumstance. So when 2030 rolls around, We will see. I think that was the lesson taught when all the Disciples said what they would do concerning forsaking Jesus. They all said they would not, Was that what they really did?

Our PRIDE has a way of exalting our words. Life has a way of deflating our pride.

[Furrowed Brow]

Would a new Christ need to perform miracles to be believed

Well I guess you can always get someone somewhere to believe anything. But I think you mean a general acceptance. Again I think reports of unsubstantiated miracles will still attract quite a few believers. Miracle like events captured on film will attract even more.

However there will always be people like me who will cry foul. Uri Geller, Derren Brown and many others can perform tricks in public that could look like a miracle. So the new messiah would have to go some to out do these guys.

A couple of years ago there was BBC drama. (I forget what it was called). It was about the new messiah turning up in the UK. Anyway, one of the miracles he performed was filling the local football stadium with people he contacted on the internet. It was night time, and when the moment was right he filled the stadium with light, by way of a shaft of light that extended into space and only appeared over the stadium and no where else. Uri Geller could not do that.

If an event of that magnitude occurred, I'd still not believe the guy/girl was a messiah - but I have to say they were much better than Pen and Teller. Those of a theist disposition will inevitable interpret such an event as a miracle I guess

[Goat]

Goat.

We will both be alive in 2029 A.D., Alive on earth? Maybe.

I am not predicting anything really, I am saying the Bible is showing this. I gave references so it can be searched out, and as far as single lines, I image the longest book ever written was made of single lines, one after another, Or should we say one letter of the Alphabet after another, with a few spaces, a few quotation marks, and a few carriage returns.

If the verses do not relate to the concept, I would like to see how. You may have a hundred Scriptural Verses you feel show this, But without one to support what you are saying, it is just an Opinion.

Time=Creation Story in 3975 B.C. (Only a Similitude) to the Baptism in 25 A.D. (Calendar is four years off) or 4,000 years.

Times= The day of the Cross is seen as 2,000 years:

Psalms 90: 4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

Ecclesiastes 6: 6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told , yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

The Half a time seen in Revelation, Seen as the Dividing of time in Daniel, or from the Cross till 2029 A.D. And Israel who is the Woman in Revelation chapter 12 sees the Face of the Serpent, and Who is it Israel can not see in the Old Testament? The day of the Cross? Or in the last 2,000 years since then?

John 3: 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

His days seen as Nothing, so the time of His earthly physical Ministry is not seen in the Math.

Ken

PS. I try not to say what I would or would not do in a given circumstance. So when 2030 rolls around, We will see. I think that was the lesson taught when all the Disciples said what they would do concerning forsaking Jesus. They all said they would not, Was that what they really did?

Our PRIDE has a way of exalting our words. Life has a way of deflating our pride.

And such predicitions I think are insane, actually. The world will live beyond 2029.

I think ti is prideful to take words out of a book, and think that YOU are the one that has decifered it correctly. People have been making predictions about that for 2000 years, and none of them have been right yet.

I don't see the bible as 'showing' that at all. I think that is just a bunch of distortions , wish fullfilments, and misinterpetations. The Tanakah passages
are totally out of context, and everything else based on pure fantasy.

[ken1burton]

Goat.

You do not see it? I do not see thing also, Like any Scripture which shows it wrong that you just posted. I have to take that as your opinion. And only your opinion, With no Scriptural basis listed. Not one verse.

I can jump on every post and claim I do not see it that way, What is that? A response? Is this a debate between opinions only? If so, I can save a lot of time and forget listing any reference to a Scriptural concept.

Most of the Jewish Nation can not see Jesus is the Christ, But Isaiah 29:10/12 shows why. Did God blind you in deep sleep also? It is kind of hard to debate a opinion which shows no reason for itself. What you see wrong with it?

I knew one man in the Christian chat rooms who told everyone they were wrong, But never listed any beliefs he held as truth so they could challenge him.

If you do not see this, List what you do see that goes against this. That is what a Debate is. Not just saying you are wrong because I can not see it.

Ken

[Goat]

Goat.

You do not see it? I do not see thing also, Like any Scripture which shows it wrong that you just posted. I have to take that as your opinion. And only your opinion, With no Scriptural basis listed. Not one verse.

I can jump on every post and claim I do not see it that way, What is that? A response? Is this a debate between opinions only? If so, I can save a lot of time and forget listing any reference to a Scriptural concept.

Most of the Jewish Nation can not see Jesus is the Christ, But Isaiah 29:10/12 shows why. Did God blind you in deep sleep also? It is kind of hard to debate a opinion which shows no reason for itself. What you see wrong with it?

I knew one man in the Christian chat rooms who told everyone they were wrong, But never listed any beliefs he held as truth so they could challenge him.

If you do not see this, List what you do see that goes against this. That is what a Debate is. Not just saying you are wrong because I can not see it.

Ken

You are quoting Isaiah 29:10-12 out of context. You see, if you goign to quote the Tanakah, you should at least quote it in context. A theology made of sound bits is not going to be valid.

[Cathar1950]

A debate is not just showing scripture taken out of context and claim they are true according to your interpretation.

Isaiah 8:20-22



20 To the law and to the testimony! (A) If they do not speak according to this word, there will be no dawn for them.

21 They will wander through the land, dejected and hungry. When they are famished, they will become enraged, and, looking upward, will curse their king and their God. 22 They will look toward the earth (B) and see only distress, darkness, and the gloom of affliction, and they will be driven into thick darkness.

It seems to me that they forget the law and are driven into darkness. Sounds Like Paul to me.

[ken1burton]

Goat.

Your WHOLE response at this point is:

You are quoting Isaiah 29:10-12 out of context. You see, if you goign to quote the Tanakah, you should at least quote it in context. A theology made of sound bits is not going to be valid.

Notice you did not say what the context of Isaiah 29:10/12 is. Just that I was taking it out of Context. Try to commit yourself a little more, So that the other can see WHY you are saying this.

Here is Isaiah 29:10/12 out of the King James Version:

10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.


I am stating this is for seeing Jesus is the Christ, The Nation of Israel as a whole were blinded from see Jesus fulfilled the Prophecies. So when Jesus said “No man cometh unto the Father, But by Me.” there was no way they could.

You say that is out of Context, SO? What do you say the Context of those verses are? What is the Vision that is being hidden from their sight? To say another is wrong, You ought to have a belief you know why.


Cathar1950

I just spoke of this to Goat, Which was already posted before your post.

You also came up with an OPINION. No Scriptural Basis whatsoever was posted to support your view.

You wrote:

A debate is not just showing scripture taken out of context and claim they are true according to your interpretation.


Great? You claim what I said is out of Context also, An Opinion is all you posted, You did not address the Verses, Show how the verse was not in Context, and show what the real context is. That would have been debating an interpretation. You used yourself as an authority to tell me I am wrong. And that is all you backed your response on.

I really do not what to hear the “I say it is wrong.” or I say it is out of Context.” Or This can not be truth because I do not see it.”

Get some Scripture to support your view, If you do not know of any, Why are you entering into a debate unless you have knowledge on the Subject?

I do not need the verse numbers, But I would like to hear what the Concept is, If it is not Scriptural, Then someone needs to show it is. The Difference between opinion and Context of the Scripture is 180 degrees.

One goes to the Truth, the other goes nowhere.


Isaiah 8:20/22

That is prophecy, all of the Old Testament prophecy is for the day of the Cross, it concerns Jesus. He is the Stumbling Block in 8:14.

Isaiah 8: 17 And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him.

Looks like Isaiah 29:10/12, Doesn’t it? He has blinded them from seeing Jesus is the Christ, Here seen as Hides His Face from them. House of Jacob is noon to sunset, Time of Jacob’s trouble. Wrestles with a man is Jesus has to allow Himself to die, or wrestles with Self preservation. He does allow Himself to die, Esau comes, Easu is Edom seen as a desolate wilderness, or the time Jesus is dead, God hated Esau or the time Jesus had to be dead, Over Edom we cast out our shoe, Jesus just took away sin, We are on Holy Ground, Get rid of those shoes.

Abraham and Jacob might have been real people, But not the ones seen in Scripture, they have no knowledge of those things.

Isaiah 63: 16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.

The Day of the Cross is a day taken out of time, That is how the Temple was destroyed, it was not the Building, It was the Priesthood that had to be cast down, So God likens them to stones, If the Disciples were to hold their peace, the Stones would cry out, and the day of the Cross the Disciples did hold their peace, and the Stones cried out “Crucify Him!”

The Day is the Birth of the Body of Christ:

Psalms 2: 6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

The day is taken out of time, and made as DARKNESS:

Job 3: 3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.
4 Let that day be darkness; let not God regard it from above, neither let the light shine upon it.
5 Let darkness and the shadow of death stain it; let a cloud dwell upon it; let the blackness of the day terrify it.
6 As for that night, let darkness seize upon it; let it not be joined unto the days of the year, let it not come into the number of the months.

The day as DARKNESS, or as things hidden till you search with your whole heart. Then Jesus shows you things in DARKNESS for you to show in the Light.

Matthew 10: 27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

The day of the Lord or the Day of the Cross is Darkness, But what is that to a Candle?

Amos 5: 18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

1-Kings 8: 12 Then spake Solomon, The LORD said that he would dwell in the thick darkness.

The day of the Cross is that thick Darkness, When you have the light of the World within you, Don’t worry about the Darkness. Go look and see what is there. The darkness is what a person can not see but God can see it, so the Light and the Darkness is alike to God.

Taking the day out of time broke the Covenant with David (Jesus had to go into hell to fulfill Scripture) and ended the Levitcal Covenant.

Jeremiah 33: 20 Thus saith the LORD; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season;
21 Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers.

Taking Good Friday 29 A.D. (Our calendar is four years off) means that the following day or Saturday as mankind sees it, Becomes the next day or Friday, then Sunday as mankind sees it, Becomes the SABBATH.

A debate is not really a Scriptural argument, it is putting the Context into the Fire so Truth shines and false is burned as dross.

The Message means everything, the Messengers mean nothing. The only real issue, is if it is truth or not. If it is inspired or not. Like Hebrews, They wonder who wrote the book of Hebrews, that is unimportant, Only if God inspired the Book. God can use a monkey to write it, if He wants, Just so long as we get a copy.

Ken