Some of the historical conflicts in the New Testament.

[polonius]

While some claim the Bible is inerrant, how do we explain the contradictions it contains?

For example:

Was Jesus crucified on the Passover (Matthew, Mark, Luke) or on the Day of Preparation before the Passover (John)?

Following Jesus' birth, did his family return to Nazareth (Luke) or did they settle for a time in Egypt (Matthew)?

Was Jesus born during the reign of King Herod (who died in 4 BC)(Matthew) or during the 6 AD census of Judea (Luke)?

Did Jesus ascend to heaven on the day he rose from the dead (Luke) or 40 days later (Acts of the Apostles?)

[JehovahsWitness]

Following Jesus' birth, did his family return to Nazareth (Luke) or did they settle for a time in Egypt (Matthew)?

They did both. Why are you suggesting doing both of the above is impossible?

[polonius]

Following Jesus' birth, did his family return to Nazareth (Luke) or did they settle for a time in Egypt (Matthew)?

They did both. Why are you suggesting doing both of the above is impossible?

RESPONSE: Because they are vastly different events occurring at the same time from the beginning at the same location and then traveling to vastly different locations.

Read all the words. and the time frame referred to.

[JehovahsWitness]

Following Jesus' birth, did his family return to Nazareth (Luke) or did they settle for a time in Egypt (Matthew)?

They did both. Why are you suggesting doing both of the above is impossible?

RESPONSE: Because they are vastly different events occurring at the same time from the beginning at the same location and then traveling to vastly different locations.

Read all the words. and the time frame referred to.

I read the accounts but cannot see at all events occurred at the same time. Perhaps you can provide, a reference to support what you say?




JW

[polonius]

Following Jesus' birth, did his family return to Nazareth (Luke) or did they settle for a time in Egypt (Matthew)?

RESPONSE: Mathew's and Luke's gospels provide the reference>



They did both. Why are you suggesting doing both of the above is impossible?

RESPONSE: Because they are vastly different events occurring at the same time from the beginning at the same location and then traveling to vastly different locations.

Read all the words. and the time frame referred to.

JW asked

I read the accounts but cannot see at all events occurred at the same time. Perhaps you can provide, a reference to support what you say?


RESPONSE: Sure they are in scripture

Matthew 13:2: When they (The Magi) had departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, "Rise, take the child and his mother, flee to Egypt,

Luke 2:39 When they (Joseph and Mary) had fulfilled all the prescriptions of the law of the Lord (about 40 days in the case of a male child) , they returned to Galilee, to their own town of Nazareth.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 5 by polonius]

Which parts of the verses restrict both events to the same time? (Indeed I cannot see any time indicator in Mattew at all). Perhaps you can quote the specific phrases in Matttew that restrict the Egypian trip to overlapping the period referred to by Luke.

[polonius]

[Replying to post 5 by polonius]

Which parts of the verses restrict both events to the same time? (Indeed I cannot see any time indicator in Mattew at all). Perhaps you can quote the specific phrases in Matttew that restrict the Egypian trip to overlapping the period referred to by Luke.

RESPONSE: The plain meaning of words.

Definition of when : the time in which something is done or comes about.

Matthew 13:2: When they (The Magi) had departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, "Rise, take the child and his mother, flee to Egypt,

Luke 2:39 When they (Joseph and Mary) had fulfilled all the prescriptions of the law of the Lord (about 40 days in the case of a male child) , they returned to Galilee, to their own town of Nazareth.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 5 by polonius]

Which parts of the verses restrict both events to the same time? (Indeed I cannot see any time indicator in Mattew at all). Perhaps you can quote the specific phrases in Matttew that restrict the Egypian trip to overlapping the period referred to by Luke.

RESPONSE: The plain meaning of words.

Definition of when : the time in which something is done or comes about.

Matthew 13:2: When they (The Magi) had departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, "Rise, take the child and his mother, flee to Egypt,

Yes but Luke implies that the Temple visit was 40 days after Jesus birth so we have a "time marker" for the Temple visit. What time marker is there to fix the visit of the visit of "the Magi"; Obviously The Magi visited after Jesus birth and before they left for Egypt, but can we,from Mattew's text establish whether they visited before, during or after the Temple visit? In short when did the Magi visit Jesus?

• WHEN DID THE MAGI VISIT?
  
  Birth |<-------------------------------------- ???? Magi ????-------------------------------->| Flight to Egypt
  
  Birth |<----------- 40 days------------>| TempleVisit

JW

[polonius]

JW asked:

Yes but Luke implies that the Temple visit was 40 days after Jesus birth so we have a "time marker" for the Temple visit. What time marker is there to fix the visit of the visit of "the Magi"; Obviously The Magi visited after Jesus birth and before they left for Egypt, but can we,from Mattew's text establish whether they visited before, during or after the Temple visit? In short when did the Magi visit Jesus?

RESPONSE: The claimed visit of the Magi took place when Jesus was still in Jerusalem or Bethlehem. (Bethlehem is 6 mi from Jerusalem Temple where the rites were conducted following 40 days birth).

Nothing in scripture says that the 40 day rites had been performed or not performed before this visit. (But a popular tradition says this visit was 6 to 10 days following his birth).

The Magi visit was before any trip to Egypt or return to Nazareth.



This was prior to his family's journey to Egypt and subsequent return tp Nazareth.

And, Matthew claimed that Jesus was born while King Herod (who died in 4 BC) was still alive, while Luke claims Jesus was born during the 6 AD census by the Roman governor Quirinius at which time Herod had been dead 10 years. (Herod's son had inherited Judea).

Obviously these two accounts are contradictory. Only one (if that) can have happened as described.

Matthew's and Luke's gospels are seriously in conflict

[jgh7]

[Replying to post 9 by polonius]

In response to Jesus being born in Herod's or Quirinius' time, this website gives a nice explanation for why things seem to be contradictory:

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/onlin ... s-was-born

Basically, some scholars have proposed it was a mistranslation due to a misunderstanding of ancient Greek grammar, where the word protos was translated as if it meant "first" (which is usually does), when in this case it meant "before".

This would render the natural reading of Luke 2:2 similar to “This census took place before the time when Quirinius was governor of Syria.�

And some bibles translations have notes offering that as a possible alternate reading.

This makes a lot more sense since in Luke 1:5 he establishes that John the Baptist was conceived during Herod's reign, and later in the 6th month of John's mother's pregnancy, Jesus would be conceived by Mary (Luke 1:36). It would make no sense for Luke to have Jesus be conceived during Herod's reign and then have him be born during Quirinius' reign which occurred something like 5-10 years later. So the translation that has protos mean "before" rather than "first" makes more sense.