Call no man "Father"

[Elijah John]

Jesus said for us to "call no man Father". Was he being literal? Or poetic, employing hyperbole in order to make a point.

If literal, was Jesus a radical? If folks disregard Jesus' command in this regard, is that sin?

If literal, how does Jesus' command square with the commandment to honor one's father and mother?

If poetic, please demonstrate that Jesus was not being literal in this case.

[tigger2]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

Context (and reason) indicate that Jesus was referring to 'Father' in a religious sense.

It also helps to show that Isaiah 9:6 is meant to be (as are so many Israelite personal names) taken as a praise to God, not to the one who was given the name.

[RightReason]

[Replying to Elijah John]

First, as we’ve seen, the imperative "call no man father" does not apply to one’s biological father. It also doesn’t exclude calling one’s ancestors "father," as is shown in Acts 7:2, where Stephen refers to "our father Abraham," or in Romans 9:10, where Paul speaks of "our father Isaac."

A careful examination of the context of Matthew 23 shows that Jesus didn’t intend for his words here to be understood literally. The whole passage reads, "But you are not to be called ‘rabbi,’ for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called ‘masters,’ for you have one master, the Christ" (Matt. 23:8–10).

The first problem is that although Jesus seems to prohibit the use of the term "teacher," in Matthew 28:19–20, Christ himself appointed certain men to be teachers in his Church: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations . . . teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you." Paul speaks of his commission as a teacher: "For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle . . . a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth" (1 Tim. 2:7); "For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and teacher" (2 Tim. 1:11). He also reminds us that the Church has an office of teacher: "God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers" (1 Cor. 12:28); and "his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers" (Eph. 4:11). There is no doubt that Paul was not violating Christ’s teaching in Matthew 23 by referring so often to others as "teachers."

Jesus criticized Jewish leaders who love "the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, and salutations in the market places, and being called ‘rabbi’ by men" (Matt. 23:6–7). His admonition here is a response to the Pharisees’ proud hearts and their grasping after marks of status and prestige.

He was using hyperbole (exaggeration to make a point) to show the scribes and Pharisees how sinful and proud they were for not looking humbly to God as the source of all authority and fatherhood and teaching, and instead setting themselves up as the ultimate authorities, father figures, and teachers.

Christ used hyperbole often, for example when he declared, "If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell" (Matt. 5:29, cf. 18:9; Mark 9:47).

Jesus is warning people against inaccurately attributing fatherhood—or a particular kind or degree of fatherhood—to those who do not have it.

As the apostolic example shows, some individuals genuinely do have a spiritual fatherhood, meaning that they can be referred to as spiritual fathers. What must not be done is to confuse their form of spiritual paternity with that of God. Ultimately, God is our supreme protector, provider, and instructor. Correspondingly, it is wrong to view any individual other than God as having these roles.

Throughout the world, some people have been tempted to look upon religious leaders who are mere mortals as if they were an individual’s supreme source of spiritual instruction, nourishment, and protection. The tendency to turn mere men into "gurus" is worldwide.

This was also a temptation in the Jewish world of Jesus’ day, when famous rabbinical leaders, especially those who founded important schools, such as Hillel and Shammai, were highly exalted by their disciples. It is this elevation of an individual man—the formation of a "cult of personality" around him—of which Jesus is speaking when he warns against attributing to someone an undue role as master, father, or teacher.

Perhaps the most pointed New Testament reference to the theology of the spiritual fatherhood of priests is Paul’s statement, "I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).

John said, "My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" (1 John 2:1); "No greater joy can I have than this, to hear that my children follow the truth" (3 John 4). In fact, John also addresses men in his congregations as "fathers" (1 John 2:13–14).

Failure to acknowledge this is a failure to recognize and honor a great gift God has bestowed on the Church: the spiritual fatherhood of the priesthood.

https://www.catholic.com/tract/call-no-man-father

[showme]

[Replying to post 3 by RightReason]

The first problem is that although Jesus seems to prohibit the use of the term "teacher," in Matthew 28:19–20, Christ himself appointed certain men to be teachers in his Church: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations . . . teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you." Paul speaks of his commission as a teacher: "For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle . . . a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth" (1 Tim. 2:7); "For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and teacher" (2 Tim. 1:11). He also reminds us that the Church has an office of teacher: "God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers" (1 Cor. 12:28); and "his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers" (Eph. 4:11). There is no doubt that Paul was not violating Christ’s teaching in Matthew 23 by referring so often to others as "teachers."

You seem to make the most common of "Christian" mistakes, and quote the false prophet Paul, and say it was a message from "Christ". This type of double mindedness, only leads to mental instability. A bad road to go down.

[RightReason]

[Replying to showme]

You seem to make the most common of "Christian" mistakes, and quote the false prophet Paul, and say it was a message from "Christ". This type of double mindedness, only leads to mental instability. A bad road to go down.

Take it up with Christendom. I can only follow/listen to that which has been revealed to us as historically demonstrated via faith and reason.

[bjs]

[Replying to post 4 by showme]


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[showme]

[Replying to showme]

You seem to make the most common of "Christian" mistakes, and quote the false prophet Paul, and say it was a message from "Christ". This type of double mindedness, only leads to mental instability. A bad road to go down.

Take it up with Christendom. I can only follow/listen to that which has been revealed to us as historically demonstrated via faith and reason.

I don't see where "reason" comes into play when you quote Paul, and attribute the quote to "Christ". I think you are listening to the church "fathers" whom the "nations"/Gentiles, are scheduled to confess, "our fathers have inherited nothing but falsehood" (Jeremiah 16:19), in "the day of distress", which would be the upcoming "awesome day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32 - Joel 3:1-17). When you see a train coming, it is best to step aside.

[RightReason]

[Replying to post 7 by showme]

I don't see where "reason" comes into play when you quote Paul, and attribute the quote to "Christ". I think you are listening to the church "fathers" whom the "nations"/Gentiles, are scheduled to confess, "our fathers have inherited nothing but falsehood" (Jeremiah 16:19), in "the day of distress", which would be the upcoming "awesome day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32 - Joel 3:1-17). When you see a train coming, it is best to step aside.

Uuumm . . . I quoted Paul from Sacred Scripture. I assume you are unaware of the irony of you quoting from the same Bible, but choosing to accept the passages you like and disregarding those you don’t. The same Church that gave you the Scripture you cite, gave us the Scripture I cite. When you see a train a coming, it is best to recognize no matter what train car you get on, they all come and go from the same track.

[showme]

[Replying to post 7 by showme]

I don't see where "reason" comes into play when you quote Paul, and attribute the quote to "Christ". I think you are listening to the church "fathers" whom the "nations"/Gentiles, are scheduled to confess, "our fathers have inherited nothing but falsehood" (Jeremiah 16:19), in "the day of distress", which would be the upcoming "awesome day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32 - Joel 3:1-17). When you see a train coming, it is best to step aside.

Uuumm . . . I quoted Paul from Sacred Scripture. I assume you are unaware of the irony of you quoting from the same Bible, but choosing to accept the passages you like and disregarding those you don’t. The same Church that gave you the Scripture you cite, gave us the Scripture I cite. When you see a train a coming, it is best to recognize no matter what train car you get on, they all come and go from the same track.

While the tare seed, and the good wheat seed are planted in the same field, the NT, they are not of equal value (Matthew 13:19 & 30) and have different results. The tare seed, the message of lawlessness, from the man of lawlessness, the false prophet Paul, leads to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13-15). The "good seed" the "word of the kingdom" (Matthew 13:19), leads to life (Matthew 7:14). As for the editor of your NT, the Roman Church, that church is just but one of the daughters of Babylon, who sits on the beast (Revelation 17:3-5). The Scriptures Yeshua referred to, "cannot be broken", and refers to the Law and the prophets. Your "scripture" refers to the testimony of the false prophet and his cronies. Two different sources, and two different gospels. As for the trains on one track, you often have collisions, and the one carrying the rock cut without hands, is the winner.

[RightReason]

[Replying to showme]

Showme, who gave you your Bible? I assume you do not believe it fell from the sky. So who compiled the Bible you use?

And by what authority do you interpret it as you do? Sincere truth seeking Christians do not share your take. Who is right and how do you know?