The nature of God. If Trinune,

[Elijah John]

If, (as Trinitarian apologists suggest) God is Triune and this fact is revealed even in the Old Testament, why didn't God make this clear to Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, etc?

Instead of allowing them to go around believing He is absolutely one.

Why not spell it out that God is supposedly triune, instead of leaving the notion dormant in the Hebrew Bible, awaiting (re?)discovery by future theologians and revisionists?

Instead, after leading His people out of pagan polytheism, God drilled it into his people's head that He is one.

"Hear O Israel, YHVH your God, YHVH is one".

One...not one of many, not three-in-one, simply one.

Why would God do this, if in fact He were "triune"?

[postroad]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

Progressive revelation? Isn't that the standard explanation? I don't think the people were as monotheistic as the Temple cult literature ie Hebrew Scriptures would have you believe.

And even that literature makes it pretty clear that those entities who appeared were representing the "Name"

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

Progressive revelation? Isn't that the standard explanation? I don't think the people were as monotheistic as the Temple cult literature ie Hebrew Scriptures would have you believe.

And even that literature makes it pretty clear that those entities who appeared were representing the "Name"

I believe the progression was from polytheism to henotheism (monolatry) to true monotheism by the time of Isaiah. In that progresssion there is no "trinitarianism" in the Old Testament, except in the imaginings of revisionists.

And it can be argued, (as some do) that even in the New Testament there is no true trinitarianism.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 3 by Elijah John]

If not a Trinity then idolatry I suppose.

A whole lot of launguage and reverence which would never be used of a man alone.

Plus the claims of divine insemination, resurrection and ascension.

[polonius]

The "Trinity" concept was invented in the third and fourth century. Once it was decided that Jesus, in addition to being the messiah, was "divine" himself it became necessary to get around the basic teaching of Judaism, "Hear O Israel, the Lord is One."

probe.org/the-council-of-nicea

"Among the world religions, Islam specifically teaches against the Trinity. Chapter four of the Koran argues, “Say not ‘Trinity’: desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One God: glory be to Him: (far Exalted is He) above having a son� (4:171). Although Muhammad seems to have wrongly believed that Christians taught that the Trinity consisted of God the Father, Mary the Mother, and Jesus the Son, they reject as sinful anything being made equivalent with Allah, especially Jesus.

"A common criticism by those who reject the doctrine of the Trinity is that the doctrine was not part of the early church, nor a conscious teaching of Jesus Himself, but was imposed on the church by the Emperor Constantine in the early fourth century at the Council of Nicea. Mormons argue that components of Constantine’s pagan thought and Greek philosophy were forced on the bishops who assembled in Nicea (located in present day Turkey). Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that the Emperor weighed in against their view, which was the position argued by Arius at the council, and, again, forced the church to follow."

Arianism was quite wide spread until Constantine demanded it be changed and exiled Arius and bishops who taught otherwise.

However, later in life he relented and invited Arius to return. However, Arius died (some say he was poisoned ) before he reached Rome.

Constantine was baptized by an Arian bishop.

A letter from Arius (c. 250–336) to the Arian Eusebius of Nicomedia (died 341) succinctly states the core beliefs of the Arians:

"Some of them say that the Son is an eructation, others that he is a production, others that he is also unbegotten. These are impieties to which we cannot listen, even though the heretics threaten us with a thousand deaths. But we say and believe and have taught, and do teach, that the Son is not unbegotten, nor in any way part of the unbegotten; and that he does not derive his subsistence from any matter; but that by his own will and counsel he has subsisted before time and before ages as perfect as God, only begotten and unchangeable, and that before he was begotten, or created, or purposed, or established, he was not. For he was not unbegotten. We are persecuted because we say that the Son has a beginning but that God is without beginning."

— Theodoret: Arius's Letter to Eusebius of Nicomedia, translated in Peters' Heresy and Authority in Medieval Europe, p. 41

[postroad]

[Replying to post 5 by polonius]

Did the Holy Spirit have sperm?

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

I think it is reasonable to say that mankind have not demonstrated themselves to be willing followers of God, no matter what we have known about God.

How much did Adam & Eve know before they sinned? In fact why do we theists sin when we know who God is?

What aspect of knowing about gravity or the fundamental forces of nature help us to be moral? In fact many argue that since God only taught moral laws and not the laws of science that God isnt God.

None of which ultimately matters. The understanding of the Trinity comes from understanding the text.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 5 by polonius]

Did the Holy Spirit have sperm?

I would imagine He has anything he needs. He is God. The creator.

[polonius]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

I think it is reasonable to say that mankind have not demonstrated themselves to be willing followers of God, no matter what we have known about God.

How much did Adam & Eve know before they sinned? In fact why do we theists sin when we know who God is?

What aspect of knowing about gravity or the fundamental forces of nature help us to be moral? In fact many argue that since God only taught moral laws and not the laws of science that God isnt God.


None of which ultimately matters. The understanding of the Trinity comes from understanding the text.

RESPONSE: What text? He or she only got added in the 4th century after it was "discovered" that a Trinity existed. So it's not in the bible.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 9 by polonius]

Which lines got added to the Bible after the 4th century?