Challenge, prove that Jesus is "God"

Elijah John · Post by **Elijah John** » Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:39 am

I have a challenge for Trinitarians. Prove that Jesus Christ is God from Scripture. But here's the rub, do so without using any references from the Gospel of John, or any of the Epistles or the Book of Revelation.

Can you do it?

EBA · Post by **EBA** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:23 pm

Elijah John wrote:
Please support the first claim with evidence from the Old Testament. I don't recall Isaiah ever saying "Thus saith the LORD, through Christ".

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Elijah John wrote:And if "Christ is Yahweh" what is the Father's name?

Yahweh.

Elijah John wrote:What was Jesus talking about when he taught us to pray "hallowed be thy name"?

In short, that his Father's name is sanctified.

Now let me ask you a question:

Using the N.T., can you show me the proper name Jesus called his Father?

Peace.

jgh7 · Post by **jgh7** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:10 am

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:42 am

shnarkle · Post by **shnarkle** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:37 am

Tcg wrote:

If Jesus were God, I'd expect him to say, "All power is mine in heaven and earth."

His statement that it was given to him implies that there is someone greater who gave it to him.

I can see how one may come to this conclusion, but it could just as easily be the other way around. For example, tribute, offerings, worship, etc. are all given to God, and none of those things indicate superiority. In fact, they all indicate power being given to the king, god, emporer, etc.

Who could that be if not God?

Who could it be when Christ himself states that he only does what he sees the father doing? What is he doing? He's serving others. So God is the servant of all, and yet it is Christ who is the humble servant who actually serves while God is simply the origin of Christ.

God is manifest in, with, and through Christ. There simply is no other game in town. There is no other option other than Christ.

shnarkle · Post by **shnarkle** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:50 am

EBA · Post by **EBA** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:18 pm

More proof that Jesus Christ is God.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Gen 1:27)

Peace.

Elijah John · Post by **Elijah John** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:45 pm

shnarkle wrote: Probably to show that ultimately, one cannot come in contact with JHVH without losing their life.

IF that is true, isn't that evidence that Jesus is not YHVH? After all, many came in contact with him.....and lived.

Also, since we believers are temples of the Holy Spirit of YHVH, why aren't we all destroyed for it?

I reject the notion that YHVH is unapproachable except though mediation. That does not seem to be what Jesus taught, Jesus taught direct access, that YHVH was our approachable Father, bypassing the Temple and the Priesthood. (again the LORD's prayer and the Parables are evidence for this.) As did John, who performed "baptisms of repentance for the forgiveness of sins" outside of Temple jurisdiction. The notion that YHVH is unapproachable seems to be a scare tactic invented by Priests to bolster their power.

EBA · Post by **EBA** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:34 pm

Elijah John wrote: Also, since we believers are temples of the Holy Spirit of YHVH, why aren't we all destroyed for it?

We are. Destruction leads to salvation.

Elijah John wrote:I reject the notion that YHVH is unapproachable except though mediation. That does not seem to be what Jesus taught, Jesus taught direct access, that YHVH was our approachable Father, bypassing the Temple and the Priesthood. (again the LORD's prayer and the Parables are evidence for this.)

I disagree with this; Christ taught the opposite. Christ is the Temple and the Priesthood.
Also, I’m curious as to which parable you think teaches this. Would you mind showing me and explaining the parable. Thank you in advance.

Elijah John wrote:As did John, who performed "baptisms of repentance for the forgiveness of sins" outside of Temple jurisdiction. The notion that YHVH is unapproachable seems to be a scare tactic invented by Priests to bolster their power.

The father is not unapproachable, but you must go through Christ to do so; that is just scriptural fact.

Have you ever wondered why God had no respect for Cain’s offering?

Peace.

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:09 pm

[Replying to post 125 by EBA]

I believe EJ is coming from an OT perspective. In the Tanakh, there is more than one verse about making your body an exceptable place for the Lord to dwell. Which is what Christ was talking about to the crowd. It wasn't a new thing, it was an old one. Which was taught to all in Isreal.

EBA · Post by **EBA** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:39 am

Debating Christianity and Religion

Challenge, prove that Jesus is "God"

Challenge, prove that Jesus is "God"

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