"Jesus is Lord"

[Elijah John]

What is meant by the New Testament proclamation that "Jesus is Lord"?

Evidence for his Divinity? Or something else?

[ttruscott]

What is meant by the New Testament proclamation that "Jesus is Lord"?

Evidence for his Divinity? Or something else?

My conclusion is it is a reinforcement of His deity.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]


Calling someone LORD doesn't make them equal to Almighty God the Creator:

GENESIS 24:1, 18 - NIV
The servant hurried to meet her and said, “Please give me a little water from your jar.�
“Drink, my lord,� she said, and quickly lowered the jar to her hands and gave him a drink.

[tam]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

Peace to you!


JW is correct, that calling someone Lord does not mean that they are God Most High (JAH).


Christ is my Lord. He is my King. He is my Master. He is my Teacher. He is the Lord, King, Master and Teacher that His God and Father (and my God and Father) sent to us.


I was led to look up the literal rendering of this verse though, and I discovered that it is not quite the same as traditional renderings:

"...that if thou mayest confess with thy mouth the Lord [Jesus], and mayest believe in thy heart that God did raise him out of the dead, thou shalt be saved..." Young's Literal Translation

"... That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord [Jesus], and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved." King James Version


https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/rom ... nc_1056009
https://biblehub.com/romans/10-9.htm

This literal version contains no confusion or ambiguity, and the spirit in me bears witness with the truth of what is being said.


Because this is then in line with what Christ Himself said:

Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father in heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father in heaven. Matthew 10:32, 33



Confess Christ with your mouth (before men), and believe in your heart (that God raised Him from the dead).


As Paul continued in verses 10 and 11:

For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved. It is just as the Scripture says: “Anyone who believes in Him will never be put to shame.�






Peace to you, and to your households,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 4 by tam]

How does any of that shed any light on what it meant by calling Jesus "Lord"? Yes, Paul considers calling Jesus "Lord" an essential element for salvation, but what do you suppose Paul or any other NT writer meant by calling Jesus "Lord"? Was Paul calling Jesus YHVH?

From your previous post I get that you do not equate Jesus with Father YHVH, but what do you think, do you think Paul considered them one and the same?

Is the LORD of the OT equal to the "Lord" of the NT? Has there been a bit of deliberate conflation here, by NT authors and translators? Blurring the lines seems to seve the purposes of NT authors who may have considered Jesus to be "God". (i.e. John and Paul), but where perhaps afraid to come out and plainly state "Jesus is God" given the absolute Shema-monotheism of their time and culture.

[showme]

What is meant by the New Testament proclamation that "Jesus is Lord"?

Evidence for his Divinity? Or something else?

Of course you are quoting the false prophet Paul. What was Paul saved from? Was he turned from perishable to imperishable in the twinkling of an eye, or is he dead, probably strangled slowly by Nero, who apparently strangled his political opponents. What do you think you are "saved" from? Did not Yeshua lord over the demons, and was their Lord? Were they saved, and saved from what? Jumping from a crazy guy into a bunch of swine, doesn't appear to be any kind of salvation. The guy that said Lord, Lord in Matthew 7:22, didn't seem to get any traction.

New American Standard Bible Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

[showme]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]


Calling someone LORD doesn't make them equal to Almighty God the Creator:

GENESIS 24:1, 18 - NIV
The servant hurried to meet her and said, “Please give me a little water from your jar.�
“Drink, my lord,� she said, and quickly lowered the jar to her hands and gave him a drink.

From a literal point of view, LORD stands for YHWH. Lord, stands for Lord. The LORD says to my Lord (Psalms 110:1)

New American Standard Bible Psalms 110:1
A Psalm of David. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet."

[showme]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

Peace to you!


JW is correct, that calling someone Lord does not mean that they are God Most High (JAH).


Christ is my Lord. He is my King. He is my Master. He is my Teacher. He is the Lord, King, Master and Teacher that His God and Father (and my God and Father) sent to us.


I was led to look up the literal rendering of this verse though, and I discovered that it is not quite the same as traditional renderings:

"...that if thou mayest confess with thy mouth the Lord [Jesus], and mayest believe in thy heart that God did raise him out of the dead, thou shalt be saved..." Young's Literal Translation

"... That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord [Jesus], and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved." King James Version


https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/rom ... nc_1056009
https://biblehub.com/romans/10-9.htm

This literal version contains no confusion or ambiguity, and the spirit in me bears witness with the truth of what is being said.


Because this is then in line with what Christ Himself said:

Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father in heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father in heaven. Matthew 10:32, 33



Confess Christ with your mouth (before men), and believe in your heart (that God raised Him from the dead).


As Paul continued in verses 10 and 11:

For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved. It is just as the Scripture says: “Anyone who believes in Him will never be put to shame.�

Peace to you, and to your households,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

What happens if you deny "Christ" 3 times? Is that a triple negative, meaning a positive?

[tam]

Peace to you EJ,

[Replying to post 4 by tam]

How does any of that shed any light on what it meant by calling Jesus "Lord"?

I'm sorry, I thought I was clear.

Master... King... the one to whom a person belongs... the one who has authority (such as the Messiah has)...


Kyrios: https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/le ... 2962&t=KJV

Was Paul calling Jesus YHVH?

From your previous post I get that you do not equate Jesus with Father YHVH, but what do you think, do you think Paul considered them one and the same?

Of course not. Paul clearly speaks of God (the Father) and Christ (the Son OF God) as two individuals.

Is the LORD of the OT equal to the "Lord" of the NT?

"LORD" (all caps) is a man-made insertion in place of the Name of God.

"LORD" (all caps) is not the same as "Lord".

Has there been a bit of deliberate conflation here, by NT authors and translators?

By the translators perhaps, those who inserted "LORD" in place of the name of God in the OT. The authors of the NT are not responsible for that.

Blurring the lines seems to serve the purposes of NT authors who may have considered Jesus to be "God". (i.e. John and Paul), but where perhaps afraid to come out and plainly state "Jesus is God" given the absolute Shema-monotheism of their time and culture.

But there is no evidence for this... and it makes no sense. Paul describes having been persecuted, flogged, arrested and imprisoned, etc. His life is at risk on more than one occasion. These things were already happening to him; he clearly did not allow suffering and risks to stop him from confessing Christ. So what reason could he have had to be too afraid to state that "Jesus" is God (JAH), if that is what he truly believed?


Paul is not ambiguous about what he understands:

yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, [Jesus] Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.




Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[brianbbs67]

lord is one in authority. The LORD refers to YHVH. You have been referred to Psalm 110, which kinda spells it out. "The LORD said to my lord." Its kinda like rank in the military. You have a boss but even he has a boss higher.