another highly debated topic in my life!
the way that people treat homosexuals makes it seem like homosexuality is a more horrible sin than other ones. i dont believe that its true! sin is sin and its all discusting to God! so what gives us the right to judge homosexuals when we also live in sin everyday? they should be allowed to join the church and be pastors or w/e because like them we knowingly live in sin from day to day.
ahh im ranting now...
what are all of your thoughts?
is homosexuality worse then other sins?
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zahndervan
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Post #41
I didnto say I expecte dno oposition, bu in truth you offered none.You gave a litany of personal attacks on my charecter, and talked at length abotu how horrible a person I as, an dhow I oppressed Homosexuals, and gave lengthy disocurse son how Im soem sor t of monster.
Never once did you try to ratioanlly discuss my poitns, either main, about why this is seen as a large issue today, or secondary, ont he casuses of Homosexuaity.
I shall close, then, ony wiht htis. The reason, as far as I can tell, through observation of the world, that Homosexuality is tlake don more often than other sins these days, is because it is a hotbutton political issue, made so by activist groups and a nsowball effect that elad it to become the largest issue of the day.
Humans, though, are fickle, and it won't be the centre stage forever. As with temperance, it will fase, and soemthin else will repalce it in the midns of others as that days new, recnt contraversial issue.
Never once did you try to ratioanlly discuss my poitns, either main, about why this is seen as a large issue today, or secondary, ont he casuses of Homosexuaity.
I shall close, then, ony wiht htis. The reason, as far as I can tell, through observation of the world, that Homosexuality is tlake don more often than other sins these days, is because it is a hotbutton political issue, made so by activist groups and a nsowball effect that elad it to become the largest issue of the day.
Humans, though, are fickle, and it won't be the centre stage forever. As with temperance, it will fase, and soemthin else will repalce it in the midns of others as that days new, recnt contraversial issue.
Leave me out of it for now.
Post #42You need to stop imagining that you somehow "know" what I did "try".Never once did you try to ratioanlly discuss my poitns, either main, about why this is seen as a large issue today, or secondary, ont he casuses of Homosexuaity.
At this point, you'd do best to not worry about "me",and just keep making the points you wish to make about homosexuality or whatever else. As it is, I'm scared of you and a bitt pissed-off with ya' at the same time.
Peace,
-Mel-
"It is better to BE more like Jesus and assume to speak less for God." -MA-
Post #43
You may be scared and angry, but Im nt imagiing what you tried. Re-read this thread.The bulk of your comments where personal attack on me, operated out of a prejudice, and rooted in a presumed hatred on my part.
You only once, in one post, acutlaly began to discuss the social ramificaitons I intorduced as my central point. The rest was about villanising me, and thas not imaginesd since all you did was talk about eiher how bad Homophobes are and how much Homoseuxla liek yourself are vicitms, or else how I am to be avoided, shunned, and feared.
Your anger and your fear do no good, and will in the end compleltey cause you to distance orself form accurate assessemtns.
WHich is, also Ironiclaly, why My form of depresison was in some odd way benificial. I didnt suffer dilusional forms of deressionand gradually devloped an apathy to the world. I can see thigns as they are as a result, and it only cost me my ability to acutlaly care about them. DOnt take this the wrogn way, I care abotu people and events, Im just not as heavily invesed.
Apathy tends ot do this.
You only once, in one post, acutlaly began to discuss the social ramificaitons I intorduced as my central point. The rest was about villanising me, and thas not imaginesd since all you did was talk about eiher how bad Homophobes are and how much Homoseuxla liek yourself are vicitms, or else how I am to be avoided, shunned, and feared.
Your anger and your fear do no good, and will in the end compleltey cause you to distance orself form accurate assessemtns.
WHich is, also Ironiclaly, why My form of depresison was in some odd way benificial. I didnt suffer dilusional forms of deressionand gradually devloped an apathy to the world. I can see thigns as they are as a result, and it only cost me my ability to acutlaly care about them. DOnt take this the wrogn way, I care abotu people and events, Im just not as heavily invesed.
Apathy tends ot do this.
Later.
Post #44You only once, in one post, acutlaly began to discuss the social ramificaitons I intorduced as my central point. The rest was about villanising me, and thas not imaginesd since all you did was talk about eiher how bad Homophobes are and how much Homoseuxla liek yourself are vicitms, or else how I am to be avoided, shunned, and feared.
I tried to tell you that it's an old conversation which you submitted; and you responded by saying the same old tired and inaccurate MYTHS I've heard thousands of times in my life (found to be untrue or questionable by MANY).
I'm just tired of arguing with views/attitudes like yours for now; but I'm by no means done defending my views accordingly. Perhaps if you were more clear in the use of writing and language, I might actually come closer to what it is that you wish to express, but all I see from this point is frustration (and certainly not frustration over my being "gay" or unclear in that which I think needed to be communicated).
No, my anger and fear are things I control; I admit that I'm not perfect.Your anger and your fear do no good, and will in the end compleltey cause you to distance orself form accurate assessemtns.
All that makes me is "human", and quite normal. If I denied them or let them CONTROL me execessively, that would be another thing altogether. You aren't dealing with a "machine" here (I believe you understand that), but I wanted to say it directly. You just MIGHT know something I need to hear, but you can be sure that everything a human being is, is what I represent. I'm not the only "gay" person who feels that way, and we aren't machines just standing by waiting to be programmed by every different view which comes along. We DO have to protect ourselves in ths real world, so if you do say something "negative", it IS going to be scrutinized or outright rejected. And that is why I wondered if you had communicated the same things you said here, with many other homosexuals (including those you said were your friends).
I reiterate, after all the NEGATIVE things (what you call "facts") you have said about homosexuals and homosexuality, you would do well to consider and express ONE GOOD REASON why I should hear from you as a credible and/or trusted individual. Otherwise, you are NOT being very realistic at all, and shouldn't wonder why I "might" smell a WOLF disguised in sheep's clothing despite certain claims you have made to the contrary.
Don't worry about me; I'm not the topic, and neither are you.
Nevertheless, I'm done discussing this with you for now.
Later,
-Mel-
"It is better to BE more like Jesus and assume to speak less for God." -MA-
Post #45
Quote:
You only once, in one post, acutlaly began to discuss the social ramificaitons I intorduced as my central point. The rest was about villanising me, and thas not imaginesd since all you did was talk about eiher how bad Homophobes are and how much Homoseuxla liek yourself are vicitms, or else how I am to be avoided, shunned, and feared.
I tried to tell you that it's an old conversation which you submitted;
No, you simply tried to redirect it into a conversaiton abotu causation, when mine was principley abotu social reaosns for it bign a hit button issue.
and you responded by saying the same old tired and inaccurate MYTHS I've heard thousands of times in my life (found to be untrue or questionable by MANY).
No I didn't. And their not myths just because you said so. THe only "Myth" ive stated is that Homoseuxality is a Psycologicla condition,a nd not innate, and it is admited even by you elswhwre that the cause of Homoseuxality is not known. Thererofre,y uo can harldy call my statement a myth, that has been shown to be innaccurate.
Least of all given the recent news.
I'm just tired of arguing with views/attitudes like yours for now;
I have no atittude, relaly. Your, again, projecitng that onto me. The Homophobe who is hot in the face, and frothign a thte mouth, doesnt exist.
As far a smy views ar eocncerned, yuo don't knwo them either. Outside, of ocurse, of me saying "Homosexuality is not innate,and is reversable, and is PScological", towhich you project "Reparative therapyyu' and a host of other Neo-Evangleical COnserviitve baggae onto, which I dotn cshare.
I even, three times, said Reparative therapy a sineffective.THis didnt stop the accusation that I supported it, as an example.
Stop playign the victim here.
but I'm by no means done defending my views accordingly.
Except you arent defendign your views, any mroe htan your rlelay attakcign mine.Yoru statign what you think my views are, impsiitng them on me, thus erectign a straw man, and creatign a mock defence of yourself as if I attacked you to paint yourself as a victim, when all along demonisimgng me for things I didnt actulaly say.
What defence is this other htan of vanity?
Perhaps if you were more clear in the use of writing and language,
Mockign my dyslexia isn't gping to win you points. And my language has been clear.
I might actually come closer to what it is that you wish to express, but all I see from this point is frustration (and certainly not frustration over my being "gay" or unclear in that which I think needed to be communicated).
Now you are shiftign the blzme onto me.
Aain, your insecure, or you'd not need to attack me, and woudln't need to comstantly make me soem sort of monster, and ten "Defend yourself" agaisnt a nonexistant atyakc on you.
Quote:
Your anger and your fear do no good, and will in the end compleltey cause you to distance orself form accurate assessemtns.
No, my anger and fear are things I control; I admit that I'm not perfect.
But you don't contorle them. So far you have malrepresented me, impunged my moral CHarecter, and discussed "Peopel liek you" as if that has ny currency, meanwhile tlaing abotu how oppressive and dangeorus my views are.Vies which you havent even demonstrated you understand, and asserting views which you simply suppose I have when Ive alreayd said I don't.
How can I see this as a rational act by a man self-[possessed and in contorle of himself? Your actiosn speak of an insecurity, and an emotional upheaval, and one rooted in personal issues. Not of a righeosus indignation agsint a bigot, sicne im nto rlelay beign a Bigot by sayign that peoel have made Hmosexuality an isue via poliical routes, nor is it threatenign to say Homosexuality is changable. WHich, a thtis point, is the usm of all Ive said. Everythign you assume I hold is just Imagined and vainglorious of you to attack.
All that makes me is "human", and quite normal.
It also makes you a hypocrite as you are doign to me as you complain others do yoto you fr beign gay, namely, buying into myths abotu me, projecitng onto me thigns htta arent true, and treatign me as less than human and deservant of dirision bsed on, essentally, an image you carry aroudnin your head.
If I denied them or let them CONTROL me execessively, that would be another thing altogether.
You are letign them contorle you, althouh you don't notice this.
You aren't dealing with a "machine" here (I believe you understand that), but I wanted to say it directly.
Ther eis no need. Really htough maybe you shoudl hear yor own words,and apply them to me.I'm not a machien either.Spacificlaly Im not a Robot.
You just MIGHT know something I need to hear, but you can be sure that everything a human being is, is what I represent.
WHich you needed ot say why? Have I at any time said you wheren't Human?
I'm not the only "gay" person who feels that way, and we aren't machines just standing by waiting to be programmed by every different view which comes along.
Nor is anyoen else, but at the sme time this doesnt render Homosexuality a hotbutton isue because you merley existy, nor becaus rleigiosu folks ar eht only ons invovled.
Politics and advocacy groups had far mroe influnce inthis respect.
Nor does it make Homosexuality innate and immutable. Nor is it speakign myths that have been disproven to sya otherwise. Neither is it an attakc on you.Nor does it denhumanise anyone to say this.
We DO have to protect ourselves in ths real world, so if you do say something "negative", it IS going to be scrutinized or outright rejected.
Actulaly I made a Positive assertation.
That Politically this hasbeocme an issue because it gaiend media attention and advocacy goruops emerged to confront society, and it wa spicked up and grw as a social trend.
You neednt protect yourself agsisnt htat view, as it doesnt hav any difect personal bearign on anyone.
Nor do yoy have to defend yourself agisnt the view that Homosexuality is not innate, btu a changabel Psycological state. The statement is not "Positive" bbut it snot "Negative" either. And irsts crtainlynto generate dby Emotions of love or hatred.Its a view base don facts as I have seen and understood them, independant of my feeligns or yours.
Yoru personal rejeciton fo them won't render them any different, and you arne't intiled to your own facts.
If you try to defend agaisnt them, it will do no good either, for if the truth is made knwon, and what you say is not true, then you simply end up in a dilusion, and a priosner.
If I am wrong, I will chang emy mind. The sad thign is, I think you willhave a harder time chanien yours if you ar proven wrong, than I do abotu mine.
And that is why I wondered if you had communicated the same things you said here, with many other homosexuals (including those you said were your friends).
I comited nohtign here.Thats the problem.
All Ive said was that the reason Homosexuality is a hitbutotn issue is becaus it wa spicke dup by the mediaand die to advocacy groups, and gained social impetus.
I didnt commit that.
I also said Homosexuality is not innate and unchangable, but is instead changable, and soemthign inthe realm of Pasycology not physiology.
I cant commit that either.
Neither of them are truely acts I can commit, and th elast one, the one you take the most offence at, sitn an act I cna commit at all.
I reiterate, after all the NEGATIVE things (what you call "facts") you have said about homosexuals and homosexuality,
Can you please tell me what Negative thigns Ive acutlaly said about Homosexuals and Homosexuality? Outside, fo coruse, that it is wrong.
you would do well to consider and express ONE GOOD REASON why I should hear from you as a credible and/or trusted individual.
Because no mattr what you think of me, I'm not evil, or sinister, and I will be willign to bakc up my cliams.
Thats pretty well all I can offer anyone. WIlliness to discuss an issue and rason withthem, and ot present facts.
Otherwise, you are NOT being very realistic at all, and shouldn't wonder why I "might" smell a WOLF disguised in sheep's clothing despite certain claims you have made to the contrary.
I'm not beign realistic, says you? Yoru the one who just jumped on the bandwagon of hatred to attack me, for things I didnt say.
Again, all Ive acutlaly said was that social conditions emerged that made Homosexuallity a prevailent issue int he media and our society.
I also said Homosexuality itsself is not inante and is adjustable. You may disagree, but to be offended by a sicnetific view is harldy worth the effort.
I alo said Homosexuality was worng, but no more so than other sins. Tis is not a view you woudl be unfamilair with, and is base dont he harm commite dby Homosexuals n themselves. You can again disagree, but it oesnt make me a monster.
Don't worry about me; I'm not the topic, and neither are you.
Yet al you tlak abotu is me, and how terirble I am, and how since Ive said nasty things I am not a creidble source.
I am the issue, and so are you, when you donothign but launche chap persoanl attacks.
You only once, in one post, acutlaly began to discuss the social ramificaitons I intorduced as my central point. The rest was about villanising me, and thas not imaginesd since all you did was talk about eiher how bad Homophobes are and how much Homoseuxla liek yourself are vicitms, or else how I am to be avoided, shunned, and feared.
I tried to tell you that it's an old conversation which you submitted;
No, you simply tried to redirect it into a conversaiton abotu causation, when mine was principley abotu social reaosns for it bign a hit button issue.
and you responded by saying the same old tired and inaccurate MYTHS I've heard thousands of times in my life (found to be untrue or questionable by MANY).
No I didn't. And their not myths just because you said so. THe only "Myth" ive stated is that Homoseuxality is a Psycologicla condition,a nd not innate, and it is admited even by you elswhwre that the cause of Homoseuxality is not known. Thererofre,y uo can harldy call my statement a myth, that has been shown to be innaccurate.
Least of all given the recent news.
I'm just tired of arguing with views/attitudes like yours for now;
I have no atittude, relaly. Your, again, projecitng that onto me. The Homophobe who is hot in the face, and frothign a thte mouth, doesnt exist.
As far a smy views ar eocncerned, yuo don't knwo them either. Outside, of ocurse, of me saying "Homosexuality is not innate,and is reversable, and is PScological", towhich you project "Reparative therapyyu' and a host of other Neo-Evangleical COnserviitve baggae onto, which I dotn cshare.
I even, three times, said Reparative therapy a sineffective.THis didnt stop the accusation that I supported it, as an example.
Stop playign the victim here.
but I'm by no means done defending my views accordingly.
Except you arent defendign your views, any mroe htan your rlelay attakcign mine.Yoru statign what you think my views are, impsiitng them on me, thus erectign a straw man, and creatign a mock defence of yourself as if I attacked you to paint yourself as a victim, when all along demonisimgng me for things I didnt actulaly say.
What defence is this other htan of vanity?
Perhaps if you were more clear in the use of writing and language,
Mockign my dyslexia isn't gping to win you points. And my language has been clear.
I might actually come closer to what it is that you wish to express, but all I see from this point is frustration (and certainly not frustration over my being "gay" or unclear in that which I think needed to be communicated).
Now you are shiftign the blzme onto me.
Aain, your insecure, or you'd not need to attack me, and woudln't need to comstantly make me soem sort of monster, and ten "Defend yourself" agaisnt a nonexistant atyakc on you.
Quote:
Your anger and your fear do no good, and will in the end compleltey cause you to distance orself form accurate assessemtns.
No, my anger and fear are things I control; I admit that I'm not perfect.
But you don't contorle them. So far you have malrepresented me, impunged my moral CHarecter, and discussed "Peopel liek you" as if that has ny currency, meanwhile tlaing abotu how oppressive and dangeorus my views are.Vies which you havent even demonstrated you understand, and asserting views which you simply suppose I have when Ive alreayd said I don't.
How can I see this as a rational act by a man self-[possessed and in contorle of himself? Your actiosn speak of an insecurity, and an emotional upheaval, and one rooted in personal issues. Not of a righeosus indignation agsint a bigot, sicne im nto rlelay beign a Bigot by sayign that peoel have made Hmosexuality an isue via poliical routes, nor is it threatenign to say Homosexuality is changable. WHich, a thtis point, is the usm of all Ive said. Everythign you assume I hold is just Imagined and vainglorious of you to attack.
All that makes me is "human", and quite normal.
It also makes you a hypocrite as you are doign to me as you complain others do yoto you fr beign gay, namely, buying into myths abotu me, projecitng onto me thigns htta arent true, and treatign me as less than human and deservant of dirision bsed on, essentally, an image you carry aroudnin your head.
If I denied them or let them CONTROL me execessively, that would be another thing altogether.
You are letign them contorle you, althouh you don't notice this.
You aren't dealing with a "machine" here (I believe you understand that), but I wanted to say it directly.
Ther eis no need. Really htough maybe you shoudl hear yor own words,and apply them to me.I'm not a machien either.Spacificlaly Im not a Robot.
You just MIGHT know something I need to hear, but you can be sure that everything a human being is, is what I represent.
WHich you needed ot say why? Have I at any time said you wheren't Human?
I'm not the only "gay" person who feels that way, and we aren't machines just standing by waiting to be programmed by every different view which comes along.
Nor is anyoen else, but at the sme time this doesnt render Homosexuality a hotbutton isue because you merley existy, nor becaus rleigiosu folks ar eht only ons invovled.
Politics and advocacy groups had far mroe influnce inthis respect.
Nor does it make Homosexuality innate and immutable. Nor is it speakign myths that have been disproven to sya otherwise. Neither is it an attakc on you.Nor does it denhumanise anyone to say this.
We DO have to protect ourselves in ths real world, so if you do say something "negative", it IS going to be scrutinized or outright rejected.
Actulaly I made a Positive assertation.
That Politically this hasbeocme an issue because it gaiend media attention and advocacy goruops emerged to confront society, and it wa spicked up and grw as a social trend.
You neednt protect yourself agsisnt htat view, as it doesnt hav any difect personal bearign on anyone.
Nor do yoy have to defend yourself agisnt the view that Homosexuality is not innate, btu a changabel Psycological state. The statement is not "Positive" bbut it snot "Negative" either. And irsts crtainlynto generate dby Emotions of love or hatred.Its a view base don facts as I have seen and understood them, independant of my feeligns or yours.
Yoru personal rejeciton fo them won't render them any different, and you arne't intiled to your own facts.
If you try to defend agaisnt them, it will do no good either, for if the truth is made knwon, and what you say is not true, then you simply end up in a dilusion, and a priosner.
If I am wrong, I will chang emy mind. The sad thign is, I think you willhave a harder time chanien yours if you ar proven wrong, than I do abotu mine.
And that is why I wondered if you had communicated the same things you said here, with many other homosexuals (including those you said were your friends).
I comited nohtign here.Thats the problem.
All Ive said was that the reason Homosexuality is a hitbutotn issue is becaus it wa spicke dup by the mediaand die to advocacy groups, and gained social impetus.
I didnt commit that.
I also said Homosexuality is not innate and unchangable, but is instead changable, and soemthign inthe realm of Pasycology not physiology.
I cant commit that either.
Neither of them are truely acts I can commit, and th elast one, the one you take the most offence at, sitn an act I cna commit at all.
I reiterate, after all the NEGATIVE things (what you call "facts") you have said about homosexuals and homosexuality,
Can you please tell me what Negative thigns Ive acutlaly said about Homosexuals and Homosexuality? Outside, fo coruse, that it is wrong.
you would do well to consider and express ONE GOOD REASON why I should hear from you as a credible and/or trusted individual.
Because no mattr what you think of me, I'm not evil, or sinister, and I will be willign to bakc up my cliams.
Thats pretty well all I can offer anyone. WIlliness to discuss an issue and rason withthem, and ot present facts.
Otherwise, you are NOT being very realistic at all, and shouldn't wonder why I "might" smell a WOLF disguised in sheep's clothing despite certain claims you have made to the contrary.
I'm not beign realistic, says you? Yoru the one who just jumped on the bandwagon of hatred to attack me, for things I didnt say.
Again, all Ive acutlaly said was that social conditions emerged that made Homosexuallity a prevailent issue int he media and our society.
I also said Homosexuality itsself is not inante and is adjustable. You may disagree, but to be offended by a sicnetific view is harldy worth the effort.
I alo said Homosexuality was worng, but no more so than other sins. Tis is not a view you woudl be unfamilair with, and is base dont he harm commite dby Homosexuals n themselves. You can again disagree, but it oesnt make me a monster.
Don't worry about me; I'm not the topic, and neither are you.
Yet al you tlak abotu is me, and how terirble I am, and how since Ive said nasty things I am not a creidble source.
I am the issue, and so are you, when you donothign but launche chap persoanl attacks.
Ok.
Post #46Ok Zarove, I hope that's over. 
(At this point, I'll try to keep things far more civil.) I apologize if I just couldn't be more plesant with you overall. You called me a hypocrite (and I suppose sometimes I am). Still, maybe I am more "defensive" overall than I should be; it's very possible.
Be all that as it may, I don't like arguments where people's feelings are getting hurt; I usually avoid them just for that reason. And I've been in so many situations where it seems someone has some absolute seed of truth about changing or fixing homosexual people (as if they REALLY know what's best for so many who ARE homosexual). For better or for worse, it does make one skeptical of those who seem to have "answers" for something that is yet unanswered overall.
Again, I can't aplogize enough for appearing to attack you; and whether that was more of a "reaction" than a "response"... I can't be 100% sure. I can work on improving my interactions with you, but I can't promise you any form of perfection; it really isn't in me.
I'll do the best I can do here, in light of what I think you are saying.
I find the question posed in the topic to be interesting:
Is homosexuality worse than other sins? (Not typically.) Some might believe or think it is, but ultimately it's a matter of individual human perceptions. (IMV)
-Mel-
(At this point, I'll try to keep things far more civil.) I apologize if I just couldn't be more plesant with you overall. You called me a hypocrite (and I suppose sometimes I am). Still, maybe I am more "defensive" overall than I should be; it's very possible.
Be all that as it may, I don't like arguments where people's feelings are getting hurt; I usually avoid them just for that reason. And I've been in so many situations where it seems someone has some absolute seed of truth about changing or fixing homosexual people (as if they REALLY know what's best for so many who ARE homosexual). For better or for worse, it does make one skeptical of those who seem to have "answers" for something that is yet unanswered overall.
Again, I can't aplogize enough for appearing to attack you; and whether that was more of a "reaction" than a "response"... I can't be 100% sure. I can work on improving my interactions with you, but I can't promise you any form of perfection; it really isn't in me.
I'll do the best I can do here, in light of what I think you are saying.
I find the question posed in the topic to be interesting:
Is homosexuality worse than other sins? (Not typically.) Some might believe or think it is, but ultimately it's a matter of individual human perceptions. (IMV)
-Mel-
P.S. I did not intentionally make fun or light of any disorder you may have (dyslexia). I don't make fun of things that people either cannot change, or find hard to change. But it has to be noted compassionately, that sometimes others DO have to carry a part of the burdens of others. And discussing this topic with you here isn't anywhere near "effortless", as your disorder does introduce some obstacles to getting from one point to the other.
"It is better to BE more like Jesus and assume to speak less for God." -MA-
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Cathar1950
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Post #47
i tend to think if two homosexuals love each other and don't get together then that might be a sin or at least a shame.
I don't think homosexuality is a sin so I don't know how it could be worse.
I don't think homosexuality is a sin so I don't know how it could be worse.
Interpretation is involved (it has been argued reasonably).
Post #49Here's an interesting article: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/1 ... cus12.html
Homosexuality may be a "sin" in the eyes of some/many who have interpreted as such, but there are strong arguments to combat that view as well. TOo many have pretended to have the "authority" of GOD, in their self-proclaimed WRATH against homosexuals; they have HURT a LOT of people in God's name, and that will NOT be allowed to go on in perpetuity. "Homosexuality" may indeed be a sin; but I seriously doubt that the forms by which many "combat" it are particualrly "sanctioned" by God Himself. That's the more important question for many Christians today; but it is seldomly addressed.
Even so, in my view it appears that many "Christians" have been hypocritical and abusive with their "authority", as it concerns homosexual people specifically. In more than a few eras, they have not truly loved those people most view as being homosexual, and often scapegoated them, placing woes upon them which the "Bible" certainly hasn't called for.
As a person who happens to be homosexual, I've seen just how terrible many Christians can be; and being a closeted person, I have often wept in silence, while seeing many who consider themselves "holy", commit horrible sins against homosexual people (because of the very thing they view as being "sinful"). And it's an understatement to say that the hatred of a particular "sin", has gotten blown up SO MUCH, as to cause leakage of that hatred TOWARDS those perceived to be sinning. It's got to STOP somewhere (or be mitigated), and I think that's exactly what God is doing era-by-era.
Not that anyone MUST accept that "homosexuality" is "ok", if that's not what they believe/think or interpret (from Scripture), but that the wanton fear and hatred generated by the unnecessarily negative things directed toward homosexual people be eased; the undue burdens of the social weight many homosexuals bear, is clearly UNJUST (a sin of society as a whole). And it would take a very misguided and arrogant "believer", to think that GOD would not seek such relief for those people (even though they have "sinned").
Ok, homosexuality is a sin; what do we do for/about homosexual people? (That to me, is the most realistic question at this point in time.) It's to the point where saying "homosexuality" is a "sin", has about as much meaning as saying HUMANS are born with a sinful NATURE.
So, I ask, what is it that "Christians" (especially) can or should do about it? Answers are welcome, but just keep in mind that the very same book many use to define homosexuals as being "sinful", also condems those who step over the line in "condemning" them.
-Mel-
Homosexuality may be a "sin" in the eyes of some/many who have interpreted as such, but there are strong arguments to combat that view as well. TOo many have pretended to have the "authority" of GOD, in their self-proclaimed WRATH against homosexuals; they have HURT a LOT of people in God's name, and that will NOT be allowed to go on in perpetuity. "Homosexuality" may indeed be a sin; but I seriously doubt that the forms by which many "combat" it are particualrly "sanctioned" by God Himself. That's the more important question for many Christians today; but it is seldomly addressed.
Even so, in my view it appears that many "Christians" have been hypocritical and abusive with their "authority", as it concerns homosexual people specifically. In more than a few eras, they have not truly loved those people most view as being homosexual, and often scapegoated them, placing woes upon them which the "Bible" certainly hasn't called for.
As a person who happens to be homosexual, I've seen just how terrible many Christians can be; and being a closeted person, I have often wept in silence, while seeing many who consider themselves "holy", commit horrible sins against homosexual people (because of the very thing they view as being "sinful"). And it's an understatement to say that the hatred of a particular "sin", has gotten blown up SO MUCH, as to cause leakage of that hatred TOWARDS those perceived to be sinning. It's got to STOP somewhere (or be mitigated), and I think that's exactly what God is doing era-by-era.
Not that anyone MUST accept that "homosexuality" is "ok", if that's not what they believe/think or interpret (from Scripture), but that the wanton fear and hatred generated by the unnecessarily negative things directed toward homosexual people be eased; the undue burdens of the social weight many homosexuals bear, is clearly UNJUST (a sin of society as a whole). And it would take a very misguided and arrogant "believer", to think that GOD would not seek such relief for those people (even though they have "sinned").
Ok, homosexuality is a sin; what do we do for/about homosexual people? (That to me, is the most realistic question at this point in time.) It's to the point where saying "homosexuality" is a "sin", has about as much meaning as saying HUMANS are born with a sinful NATURE.
So, I ask, what is it that "Christians" (especially) can or should do about it? Answers are welcome, but just keep in mind that the very same book many use to define homosexuals as being "sinful", also condems those who step over the line in "condemning" them.
-Mel-
"It is better to BE more like Jesus and assume to speak less for God." -MA-
Re: is homosexuality worse then other sins?
Post #50zahndervan wrote:another highly debated topic in my life!
the way that people treat homosexuals makes it seem like homosexuality is a more horrible sin than other ones. i dont believe that its true! sin is sin and its all discusting to God! so what gives us the right to judge homosexuals when we also live in sin everyday? they should be allowed to join the church and be pastors or w/e because like them we knowingly live in sin from day to day.
ahh im ranting now...
what are all of your thoughts?
While homosexuality is just as bad in God's eyes as lying, stealing, or murder, there is a criteria that the Bible lays down for preachers to follow and if they don't and willingly go their own way, then they are not fit in God's eyes to be leaders of His people.
We are not perfect. Neither are pastors. But pastors and homos are different in the fact that preachers try their best with God's help to do what God wants them to. Homo's on the other hand live in a lifestyle that is against everything natural to man, against the Bible and God, and they know it. They live every day in direct disobedience to God with no care about the fact that their unnatural lifestyle is an abomination to God and they will be severley judged by God when they die unless they ask God's forgiveness for it before they die. That is not to say that we can live however we want to and then ask God to forgive us right before we die. We are supposed to live our life each day to glorify God. homos can not do that and still have sex with each other. Plus, it sickens everyone else who has a normal love life.
But now I'm ranting.
