Calvinism

[Wootah]

Was God's work on the cross 100% complete or was it incomplete and God also needed to force some people to believe?

[ElCodeMonkey]

I wouldn't see it as "forcing" per se. Calvinism is pre-determination meaning not anything of ourselves that can truly decide, but this is more akin to the nature of reality. We are all a product of our genes and environment. We perceive a consciousness but never truly have any real say in our lives. We will be, do, and react in whatever ways our neural network of molecules have been trained to do from their initial makeup to experiences in life. In such a way, none of us are forced into anything while simultaneously having no choice but to be what we are. It was set in motion and everything will be exactly as it will be with no way to be anything else.

[Wootah]

I wouldn't see it as "forcing" per se. Calvinism is pre-determination meaning not anything of ourselves that can truly decide, but this is more akin to the nature of reality. We are all a product of our genes and environment. We perceive a consciousness but never truly have any real say in our lives. We will be, do, and react in whatever ways our neural network of molecules have been trained to do from their initial makeup to experiences in life. In such a way, none of us are forced into anything while simultaneously having no choice but to be what we are. It was set in motion and everything will be exactly as it will be with no way to be anything else.

Was the work on the cross enough or not?

[ElCodeMonkey]

Was the work on the cross enough or not?

Well, for me, it was never about work on the cross. The cross was an unfortunate incident for an amazingly perceptive and courageous person focused on loving others above all else. From a Christian standpoint though, I don't see why it wouldn't be "enough" whether things are pre-determined or not. Things are set in motion and those who will be properly aligned with the right magical thinking will be saved due to the sacrifice and those not pre-disposed to the right magical thinking are destined not to be saved at all.

[brianbbs67]

Was God's work on the cross 100% complete or was it incomplete and God also needed to force some people to believe?

I would say, God completes what He wills and He doesn't, in general force anyone to do anything, unless it interferes with His purpose. A little discipline and even coercion , yes, as He does not wish to destroy what He made. He wants all to be good and follow some pretty simple(10) rules for moral living.

[Tcg]

Was God's work on the cross 100% complete or was it incomplete and God also needed to force some people to believe?

Can you provide documentation that Calvinism views God's work on the cross incomplete?

Can you document that Calvinism teaches that God needs to force some people to believe?

If not, why should we consider this anything but a straw man representation of Calvinism?

[Dimmesdale]

Was God's work on the cross 100% complete or was it incomplete and God also needed to force some people to believe?

I've always heard it phrased that if the work on the cross is 100% complete that means God would have to force people to believe (i.e., monergism)....

[ttruscott]

Was God's work on the cross 100% complete or was it incomplete and God also needed to force some people to believe?

Christ's death on the cross 100% redeemed the sinful elect so they were again legally in favour with GOD as HE promised when HE chose them to be HIS Bride in the heavenly state.

His death did not cause the sinful elect to be reborn without the enslavement to sin that corrupted their free will, it did not renew their faith in the Son as the source of their salvation, it did not bring them to understand that holiness, complete accord with GOD's character and HIS plans for us, was a necessity to heavenly life nor did it achieve sanctification within their lives... BECAUSE that was not the purpose nor the meaning of His death for us!

HE never forced anyone to put their faith in HIM and HIS Son - anyone who did so chose by their free will, but for those who did put their faith in HIM but then lost that faith and their free will due to their choice to sin, HE did have to engage with them to cure their addiction to sin and to bring them back into His flock. Since they are addicted to evil and resist this change in their spirits, their being brought to repentance and holiness can be seen as a forcing but this has nothing to do with His death for us being inadequate since this was not the purpose of His death for us.

[Wootah]

Was God's work on the cross 100% complete or was it incomplete and God also needed to force some people to believe?

I've always heard it phrased that if the work on the cross is 100% complete that means God would have to force people to believe (i.e., monergism)....

If God forces ppl to believe then the work on the cross was not 100% and not even relevant?

[Wootah]

Was God's work on the cross 100% complete or was it incomplete and God also needed to force some people to believe?

Christ's death on the cross 100% redeemed the sinful elect so they were again legally in favour with GOD as HE promised when HE chose them to be HIS Bride in the heavenly state.

His death did not cause the sinful elect to be reborn without the enslavement to sin that corrupted their free will, it did not renew their faith in the Son as the source of their salvation, it did not bring them to understand that holiness, complete accord with GOD's character and HIS plans for us, was a necessity to heavenly life nor did it achieve sanctification within their lives... BECAUSE that was not the purpose nor the meaning of His death for us!

HE never forced anyone to put their faith in HIM and HIS Son - anyone who did so chose by their free will, but for those who did put their faith in HIM but then lost that faith and their free will due to their choice to sin, HE did have to engage with them to cure their addiction to sin and to bring them back into His flock. Since they are addicted to evil and resist this change in their spirits, their being brought to repentance and holiness can be seen as a forcing but this has nothing to do with His death for us being inadequate since this was not the purpose of His death for us.

Whether we chose before or after it seems we agree Christ's work on the cross is 100%.