Jesus confusing words

[achilles12604]

What is the deal with Jesus Parables? Are they confusing? Are they straight forward? Are there hidden meanings?

On this thread lets take one parable at a time and examine it. What does everyone think it was supposed to mean? What is the history surrounding it?

For simplicity sake I will start with one. Feel free to insert more as you wish.

Quote:
43"When an evil[f] spirit comes out of a man, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. 44Then it says, 'I will return to the house I left.' When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. 45Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that man is worse than the first. That is how it will be with this wicked generation."

Lets go line by line.

43"When an evil[f] spirit comes out of a man, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it.

- My understanding of this line is when an evil spirit comes out, (or ceases to plague) a man, it is driven away to places it doesn't want to be. Perhaps it is returned to hell or something. Anyway . . .

44Then it says, 'I will return to the house I left.' When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order.

This is the key line for our discussion. The spirit wishes to return to plague the man. If the man has received the gift from Jesus of driving out the demon, BUT the man still refuses to accept and follow Jesus, then his soul (house) is clean for the moment but it is still empty (unoccupied). Since his soul is still unoccupied, the evil spirit can re-enter and continue to afflict and influence the man.

On the other hand, if the spirit returns to find that the man has accepted Jesus, his teachings, and his position as lord of his body and soul, then the house is now occupied with the spirit of Jesus and the demon can not enter.


We can see this in real life too. Someone receives the story of the Gospel with "I like the community I find in church but I don't want anyone including God to run my life. So I will play the game." Then this person see's absolutely no real life changes. Their desires, behaviors and other aspects of their inner self remain the same.

Now on the other hand I have seen individuals (my own mentor for example) who dive into Jesus and his teachings full force and totally immerse themselves. They develop a "hunger" for God and his words. These individuals are the ones who usually end up splitting way's with their past and seeking a new life. They break ties with certain friends. They change their music inventory. They begin t realize when they are doing things they shouldn't and then they suddenly realize the really don't WANT to do those things as much as before. Those actions arn't as much fun as they were before. In Short, God ruins their life. (Yes I meant R-U-I-N-S, not runs.)

Now they have the opportunity to "re-fill" their lives with Jesus oriented equivalents. Godly friends. Godly Music. Godly actions. And suddenly they have a brand new life, much different than the old.

This transformation happens to many people. Each one unique, but many similarities.

What do others think of this parable? Other Parables?

[CubicU]

alright, in regards to your question, I find the parable's pretty easy to comprehend on one scale, but difficelt to understand on another. Just a matter of how you want to look at it and what you want to learn from it.

As for the first parable under discussion here's my 2 cents:
After responding to sign seekers, Jesus reverts to the matter of unclean and evil spirits, in connection with which they had spread the accusation that He was one of the devil's own, He told them, that when a demon is cast out, he tries after a season of loneliness to return to the house or body from which he had been expelled and, finding that house in order, sweet and clean since his filthy self had been forced to vacate it, he calls other spirits more wicked than himself, and they take possession of the man, and make his state worse that it was at first. In this weird example is typified the condition of those who have received the truth, and thereby have been freed from the unclean influences of error and sin, so that in mind and spirit and body they are as a house swept and garnished and set in cleanly order, but who afterwards renounce the good, open their souls to the demons of flasehood and deceit, and become more corrupt than before. "Even so, " declared the Lord, "shall it be also unto this wicked generation."

[Confused]

What is the deal with Jesus Parables? Are they confusing? Are they straight forward? Are there hidden meanings?

On this thread lets take one parable at a time and examine it. What does everyone think it was supposed to mean? What is the history surrounding it?

For simplicity sake I will start with one. Feel free to insert more as you wish.

Quote:
43"When an evil[f] spirit comes out of a man, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. 44Then it says, 'I will return to the house I left.' When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. 45Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that man is worse than the first. That is how it will be with this wicked generation."

Lets go line by line.

43"When an evil[f] spirit comes out of a man, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it.

- My understanding of this line is when an evil spirit comes out, (or ceases to plague) a man, it is driven away to places it doesn't want to be. Perhaps it is returned to hell or something. Anyway . . .

44Then it says, 'I will return to the house I left.' When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order.

This is the key line for our discussion. The spirit wishes to return to plague the man. If the man has received the gift from Jesus of driving out the demon, BUT the man still refuses to accept and follow Jesus, then his soul (house) is clean for the moment but it is still empty (unoccupied). Since his soul is still unoccupied, the evil spirit can re-enter and continue to afflict and influence the man.

On the other hand, if the spirit returns to find that the man has accepted Jesus, his teachings, and his position as lord of his body and soul, then the house is now occupied with the spirit of Jesus and the demon can not enter.


We can see this in real life too. Someone receives the story of the Gospel with "I like the community I find in church but I don't want anyone including God to run my life. So I will play the game." Then this person see's absolutely no real life changes. Their desires, behaviors and other aspects of their inner self remain the same.

Now on the other hand I have seen individuals (my own mentor for example) who dive into Jesus and his teachings full force and totally immerse themselves. They develop a "hunger" for God and his words. These individuals are the ones who usually end up splitting way's with their past and seeking a new life. They break ties with certain friends. They change their music inventory. They begin t realize when they are doing things they shouldn't and then they suddenly realize the really don't WANT to do those things as much as before. Those actions arn't as much fun as they were before. In Short, God ruins their life. (Yes I meant R-U-I-N-S, not runs.)

Now they have the opportunity to "re-fill" their lives with Jesus oriented equivalents. Godly friends. Godly Music. Godly actions. And suddenly they have a brand new life, much different than the old.

This transformation happens to many people. Each one unique, but many similarities.

What do others think of this parable? Other Parables?

Ok, you picked an easy first one. But isn't accepting Christ contigent on casting out the demon? And why does he drag 7 others with him? Why share one body? And to really make it perplexing, I have never met a Christian who hasn't at some point questioned God or wavered in their faith. If such a parable means as you say, then is it not true that any Christian can be attacked at any time regardless of their devotion to God, but because one wavering moment opened the door and God did nothing to stop it?

But overall I understand this parable, though I have my doubts about it's validity, I can and have interpreted it to mean the same.

[Confused]

Next parable:
Mark 4:10 When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12so that,
" 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'[a]"

Reading this, one would conclude that the parables werent meant to be understood by anyone not already within His faith. How can one become into His faith if one cannot understand what is written?

[achilles12604]

Ok, you picked an easy first one. But isn't accepting Christ contigent on casting out the demon? And why does he drag 7 others with him? Why share one body? And to really make it perplexing, I have never met a Christian who hasn't at some point questioned God or wavered in their faith. If such a parable means as you say, then is it not true that any Christian can be attacked at any time regardless of their devotion to God, but because one wavering moment opened the door and God did nothing to stop it?

But overall I understand this parable, though I have my doubts about it's validity, I can and have interpreted it to mean the same.

Isn't accepting Christ contigent on casting out the demon? Casting out the demon is not a requirement for accepting Christ. Is this what you meant?

Why does he drag 7 more? I don't know. It is just an example; a parable. The details aren't important so long as the message gets through.

I have also never met a christian who hasn't wavered at some point. Considering the crazy stuff we believe this isn't surprising huh?

Wavering faith isn't a bad thing necessarily. For me my wavering faith is what led me to apologetics. Without questioning, I would not be as sure of what I am sure of. Sorry that was a very poorly constructed sentence, but hopefully you got what I meant.

[Confused]

Ok, you picked an easy first one. But isn't accepting Christ contigent on casting out the demon? And why does he drag 7 others with him? Why share one body? And to really make it perplexing, I have never met a Christian who hasn't at some point questioned God or wavered in their faith. If such a parable means as you say, then is it not true that any Christian can be attacked at any time regardless of their devotion to God, but because one wavering moment opened the door and God did nothing to stop it?

But overall I understand this parable, though I have my doubts about it's validity, I can and have interpreted it to mean the same.

Isn't accepting Christ contigent on casting out the demon? Casting out the demon is not a requirement for accepting Christ. Is this what you meant?

Why does he drag 7 more? I don't know. It is just an example; a parable. The details aren't important so long as the message gets through.

I have also never met a christian who hasn't wavered at some point. Considering the crazy stuff we believe this isn't surprising huh?

Wavering faith isn't a bad thing necessarily. For me my wavering faith is what led me to apologetics. Without questioning, I would not be as sure of what I am sure of. Sorry that was a very poorly constructed sentence, but hopefully you got what I meant.

Ok, moving along, how can we reconcile the next parable I posted?

[achilles12604]

Next parable:
Mark 4:10 When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12so that,
" 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'[a]"

Reading this, one would conclude that the parables werent meant to be understood by anyone not already within His faith. How can one become into His faith if one cannot understand what is written?

This parable I see happen every day on this site.

First let’s begin with Christian theology concerning acceptance into heaven. What is the bottom line?

There are many different possibilities. Those "GOOD" enough. (Mormons/Islam/etc) Those who pray or meditated enough. (Buddhist/ hindu/etc) Those who please the God's with various sacrifices (Aztec/Myan/Etc).

Christian theology (in my opinion) allows heaven for individuals who cease to defy God, cease placing themselves into God's place, submit themselves to God and his will, and follow the teachings specifically about loving fellow men of Jesus.

Accepting the expectations of submission to God, loving your fellow men and following Jesus causes a man (or woman) to stop rebelling against God and they stop doing what they want to do. They begin to do what GOD wants them to do.

Now to the parable. Many individuals do not want to give up control of their lives. They do not like the idea of not controlling their lives. They want to follow their own rules concerning Jobs, Human interaction, Morals, etc. THEY are their God. When someone consciously makes the choice to be their own God, they have no room for God to rule over them and subject them.

When God understands that an individual has made this choice in their heart and mind, their judgment and understanding of God and his teachings becomes clouded. Either by God or through another evil force, their understanding becomes mottled. I happen to think that it is Satan who the MEN allow to cloud their vision and God doesn't force Satan away due to the man's CHOICE to reject him in the first place.

My theological view on this subject also rejects original sin. I believe that a child is born pure. However this child has an inbreed desire to rebel and sin and this instinct causes them to sin.

I have noticed how a child has no trouble believing in Magic. They believe in the supernatural WAAAY before they are able to contemplate a supernatural realm. This causes me to think that during the beginning of a child’s life, their vision is protected. Not until they make a conscious choice (perhaps many many times) to be their own God is god pushed away and the person clears the area for Satan to come in and cloud their vision.

Satan has no restrictions on free will. He has no issue forcing his viewpoint on people. God does. He wants people to WANT to come to him. He wants them to make that ultimate choice of who they want their life to serve; themselves or God and others. But he will not force people to choose him. If they reject him, then Satan is free and clear to force his way on those people.

The end result is that those who consciously choose to reject God and be their own God's will see God's work, but never perceive it. In other words they will see do-gooders out working with the poor and think nothing more than (gee that's nice). They do not perceive God's love behind their actions. On a deeper level they do not see God guiding them right to the single mother of 3 trapped in a motel room without a job and about to be thrown to the street. They chalk it up to good luck for her, when God's hand created the group helping them, guided the group to her room and most importantly they can not see the holy spirit working on the woman's heart, begging her to return to God, when they give her a helping hand. Those who reject God don't see anything that happens behind the scenes.

Again they can hear words from the holy spirit, comforting Christians and reminding them of who they belong to. They do not hear the nudging of the spirit telling the Christian that they are falling short by drinking to much or stealing. The non-theists chalk the oversensitive moral nature to a strong conscious. The conscious is overly strong because the holy spirit is behind it. But they can not see this.

As for the last line, this is what I have been talking about concerning free will and why God will never get directly involved. If God were to make his will overwhelmingly obvious (ie he tears through space and time and appears in all his glory) then people who do not WANT to have God lead them, will follow the rules simply out of fear of God. This has effectively damaged their free will to reject him. It boils down to a "BUT for . . . " argument.

But for God's direct involvement . . . they would reject him.

[Confused]

Achilles:

I have a completely different concept than you obviously. I don't believe that satan has clouded my judgement or made it so that the bible doesn't make sense to me. See, your interpretation is based on the assumption that a person wants to do whatever they want, leading to them becoming their own God in effect, as they reject doing what God wants them to do. Now, let us apply what you already know about me. How could I possible reject God and try to do what I wanted to do rather that what God wanted me to do when I never even knew God existed until 5 years ago. The concept was never in my mind to reject. I didn't blame God for my upbringing while I was growing up. (though I may now, not sure about it or not). I didn't do anything to defy God. Why would He have allowed satan to cloud my ability to understand or why would He cloud it if I never had the opportunity to know anything yet. I know you say we are all born with some concept of God or as children become aware of some concept of God, but you are wrong. The only supernatural or magical thing I ever believed in growing up (or raising myself as was the case) was I once put my stuffed Minnie Mouse behind a gate one day and said if there are truly aliens, then they will take my Minnie Mouse ( I forget what led up to this seemingly stupid thing). Of course, the next day, Minnie was still there, so I threw her in the garbage (she was missing an ear, leg and eye) and never believed in aliens or the supernatural since. But I don't recall once from childhood up until college ever even thinking about God. Then I took a lot of ancient history classes and ancient literature classes to disprove the concept of "love" and this would be where the notion of a God came in, but I still never really thought about it. I didn't accept or reject Him, He wasn't on any of my exams, so I didn't pay much interest into what was said and there were so many version of Him that I didn't have time to dwell. Most of my life has been living life with logic and reasoning rather than emotions and supernatural. It wasn't until 5 years ago, well almost 6 now, that I even questioned what one was let alone if one actually existed. So tell me, why would God skew my ability or allow satan to cloud it without at least first giving me the chance to read it?

[achilles12604]

Achilles:

I have a completely different concept than you obviously. I don't believe that satan has clouded my judgement or made it so that the bible doesn't make sense to me. See, your interpretation is based on the assumption that a person wants to do whatever they want, leading to them becoming their own God in effect, as they reject doing what God wants them to do. Now, let us apply what you already know about me. How could I possible reject God and try to do what I wanted to do rather that what God wanted me to do when I never even knew God existed until 5 years ago. The concept was never in my mind to reject. I didn't blame God for my upbringing while I was growing up. (though I may now, not sure about it or not). I didn't do anything to defy God. Why would He have allowed satan to cloud my ability to understand or why would He cloud it if I never had the opportunity to know anything yet. I know you say we are all born with some concept of God or as children become aware of some concept of God, but you are wrong. The only supernatural or magical thing I ever believed in growing up (or raising myself as was the case) was I once put my stuffed Minnie Mouse behind a gate one day and said if there are truly aliens, then they will take my Minnie Mouse ( I forget what led up to this seemingly stupid thing). Of course, the next day, Minnie was still there, so I threw her in the garbage (she was missing an ear, leg and eye) and never believed in aliens or the supernatural since. But I don't recall once from childhood up until college ever even thinking about God. Then I took a lot of ancient history classes and ancient literature classes to disprove the concept of "love" and this would be where the notion of a God came in, but I still never really thought about it. I didn't accept or reject Him, He wasn't on any of my exams, so I didn't pay much interest into what was said and there were so many version of Him that I didn't have time to dwell. Most of my life has been living life with logic and reasoning rather than emotions and supernatural. It wasn't until 5 years ago, well almost 6 now, that I even questioned what one was let alone if one actually existed. So tell me, why would God skew my ability or allow satan to cloud it without at least first giving me the chance to read it?

Hmmm. In general you have made to separate points here so I will pull them apart and address them what I perceive to be a logical sequence.

Let me address your second point first.

You wrote:

I know you say we are all born with some concept of God or as children become aware of some concept of God, but you are wrong. The only supernatural or magical thing I ever believed in growing up (or raising myself as was the case) was I once put my stuffed Minnie Mouse behind a gate one day and said if there are truly aliens, then they will take my Minnie Mouse ( I forget what led up to this seemingly stupid thing). Of course, the next day, Minnie was still there, so I threw her in the garbage (she was missing an ear, leg and eye) and never believed in aliens or the supernatural since. But I don't recall once from childhood up until college ever even thinking about God. Then I took a lot of ancient history classes and ancient literature classes to disprove the concept of "love" and this would be where the notion of a God came in, but I still never really thought about it. I didn't accept or reject Him, He wasn't on any of my exams, so I didn't pay much interest into what was said and there were so many version of Him that I didn't have time to dwell.

Ok let me ask you a question. As a child, were you ever afraid of the dark? If so, why?

Most children, my own included, have an inherent fear of dim light. Most claim, as mine does, that they are afraid of monsters. But monsters are supernatural. So I think I can safely say that at the very least MOST children are at a minimum aware of "the supernatural" even if they don't understand what it is they are aware of. It is almost a 6th sense (hence the movie).

With all the media playing about Ghosts and Magic and what-not, it is almost impossible for a child to be UNAWARE of the idea of the supernatural. Many times the parents tell the child "it doesn't exist." But they this would fit in with my ideas about clouding.

In your case you very well may not have had any thoughts of God or a supernatural. I can believe you based solely on our prior dealings. But given this, your preconceived knowledge of what is "true" was still being formed. Everyone has a base of preconceptions from which they address life. Most of the time we tap into these preconceptions without even being aware that we even have them or are doing so. So if you were raised without ANY exposure to the idea of a supernatural realm, then I can understand how your preconception would be that it doesn't exist today.

Now as for this . . .

I have a completely different concept than you obviously. I don't believe that satan has clouded my judgement or made it so that the bible doesn't make sense to me. See, your interpretation is based on the assumption that a person wants to do whatever they want, leading to them becoming their own God in effect, as they reject doing what God wants them to do.

It wasn't until 5 years ago, well almost 6 now, that I even questioned what one was let alone if one actually existed. So tell me, why would God skew my ability or allow satan to cloud it without at least first giving me the chance to read it?

He may not have. Without all the details I can not give you a solid and straight answer. My thesis was intended to cover MOST of those who reject God and/or don't understand the Gospels.

Your case is unique. I do not know everything about you and even if I did, I would never presume to be able to answer the WHY's behind your journey. In short I don't know why our understandings of the parables would be different. Actually I'm not 100% sure that our understandings are in fact different. So far we have only addressed one in detail. I'm sorry I can't give you a full answer about the natures of the supernatural. Actually I'm not sorry. If I could . . . I'd be dead.

A Pleasure as always.

[ken1burton]

Hello, I am new on this forum, But to the internet and the different Christian chat rooms, I have been in them thousands of hours. And most of the chat rooms are debates.

When you consider the Parables. One thing Jesus said needs to be considered:

Mark 4: 13 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

The Parables have a connecting link. When that link is found, the Parables fall into place. Or know one, know them all.

Here is what connects them: They are all for the Day of the Cross.

There are some concepts that have to be understood to put the pieces in the right place. I will list them with the references.

Luke 18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

The day of the Cross is made as three pictures, or Doubled twice like Pharaoh’s dream in Genesis 41:32 to ESTABLISH it as God’s Word.

Isaiah 30: 26 Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.

Only the day of the Cross will fit Isaiah 30:26 when God heals His people.

The day as 7 days, seen as 3 pictures, first as 4 6-hour periods, seen as 4 beasts with 6-wings in Revelation, Seen as the first 4 days in Genesis, Second picture as 2 12-hour periods seen as 2 witnesses in Revelation, Third as 1 24-hour period seen as 24 Elders in Revelation.

All the Sevens in the Book of Revelation is looking at the day of the cross as these time periods, Often seen as a third of this, and a third of that or one of the three pictures, Together they are as ten days, or He shall have Tribulation 10 days.

So God’s word like as Silver tried in the Fire seven times, is for the day of the Cross, As Leaven hidden in three measures of meal, for the day of the Cross, Building Bigger Barns is Jesus reaching for all mankind, Not just the lost sheep of the House of Israel. The day as 7 time periods is as Silver, the day as 3 pictures is as Gold, Jesus is the Street, seen in the Three pictures so the Streets are paved with Gold.

Isaiah 51: 23 But I will put it into the hand of them that afflict thee; which have said to thy soul, Bow down, that we may go over: and thou hast laid thy body as the ground, and as the street, to them that went over.

First as a Street to those alive on earth, Second as a street to those who have died, Third as a street to be with God in Heaven.

Parable of the Sower, The day as 4 6-hour periods, Sunset to Midnight is the Wayside, Disciples are the seeds which fell, Stones as ones cold to Jesus (Coals of fire as believers in Christ, He kindles coals with His breadth, He breathed on them and said “Receive ye the Holy Ghost.”)

Thorns and Briers seen as the Heathen, Good Ground is noon to sunset as Jesus died for sin, the day as 3 pictures, 30 fold, 60 fold, 100 fold.

Many are called, Few are Chosen, (The Heathen which are CALLED by My Name are the MANY), and the Jewish people are the Chosen.

God got a bit cute on the lost Coin of the ten, He is saying He will get every one of the time periods, not lose one, So He uses the lepers, 10 were cleansed, Only one is seen to give Glory to God, WHERE ARE THE NINE?

Prodical Son, Jesus takes all the Father give Him, Give unto us, Riotous living is to eat and drink with publicans and sinners, Began to be in want, or wants all mankind saved, Not just the Lost sheep of the House of Israel, Begins to feed the Swine or preach to non-Jews. Returns unto the Father, of goes back under Jewish law and offers Himself the day of the Cross.

Like a man who goes into a Far country to receive a Kingdom and return, Jesus takes them all out of hell:

Zechariah 9:11 As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.
12 Turn you to the strong hold, ye prisoners of hope: even to day do I declare that I will render double unto thee;

DOUBLE or the Second picture is seeing Jesus in hell.

The First picture as 4 6-hour periods, or a River divided into four heads, (Garden of Eden)

The day as 7 eyes in the Book of Revelation, the Lamb has seven eyes. “Let tears run down like a river.” So the Second picture seen as a Desert or a pit where in is no water. So God dries up every tear from their eyes, as the Second picture starts.

The day as 4 6-hour periods, Sunset to Midnight, as Old Heaven, Midnight to sunrise as Old Earth. Heaven and earth flee from His Face seen as the Face of a man on the third beast with 6-wings which is Sunrise to noon, New Earth, New Heaven is noon to sunset.

Adding the Cubit makes a person reach angel status, Or loving Greater then to lay down your life for a friend (Greater love has NO MAN than this) Christians lay down their lives in Service even to their enemies.

There are 144 men with Judas, seen as a wall in Revelation 21:17, They have the Cubit or are the Angels given Charge over Jesus. Multiplied by 1,000 in Deuteronomy 1:11. Or the 144,000. Sealed in Isaiah 29:10/12 from seeing Jesus, 12,000 of twelve tribes.

They are the GOATS, Seen in Song of Solomon 4:1. The Goats as Hairs, of all the HAIRS of His Head are numbered, God uses who is above as the Head, who is beneath as the Tail, Jesus is the Head of the first 6-hours.

God places all iniquity on Jesus (Isaiah 53:6) So He is all things which offend, So the angels gather all things which offend (Jesus) from one end of heaven to the other, from one end of the earth to the Other. Jesus is also the ELECT which the angels gather.

The Judgment is Sunrise to noon, The Goats as hairs, the Teeth seen as sheep in Song of Solomon 4:2, When they pluck the Hairs from His Face, they separate the Sheep from the Goats.
The Third seal is the Black Horse with Balances. The third angel sounds in Revelation, The Star wormwood falls, Stars are for signs, The Sign is the Judgment falling on Christ, He is made all things cursed, He is even as the Earth.

Amos 5: 7 Ye who turn judgment to wormwood, and leave off righteousness in the earth,

I think I made my point, By the way, God made me a porcupine.

There are hundreds of concepts. And they like the Parables are for the day of the Cross, and they all fit together and interlock.

Ken