Good news, or better?

[marco]

I used to sing something about Jesus coming to give good news: to tell poor people they were rich, blind people were not blind and deaf folk could really hear. That would have been good to know. Another version of Christ's good tidings of great joy was the future estabishment of some parliamentary system, maybe like the English one, in a newly built city somehere, with Jesus Prime Minister. The waiting time was to be a few years, to get things in place, then a few centuries but the latest update seems to be a few millennia. Heaven's having technical problems. But that's good news for the remote future. Maybe.


Then as I read through the good news reports I learned the best news came from John.

John 3:16 :- "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life"


This says that a Father God had his son tortured and killed out of immense love for human beings, and having had him humiliated, he felt much, much better and forgave humans for something they didn't do, while still exercising judgment on them for what they did do. But maybe that's too simplistic.




Question: Where is the Good News in this? Or is there even better news?

[marco]

I used to sing something about Jesus coming to give good news: to tell poor people they were rich, blind people were not blind and deaf folk could really hear. That would have been good to know. Another version of Christ's good tidings of great joy was the future estabishment of some parliamentary system, maybe like the English one, in a newly built city somehere, with Jesus Prime Minister. The waiting time was to be a few years, to get things in place, then a few centuries but the latest update seems to be a few millennia. Heaven's having technical problems. But that's good news for the remote future. Maybe.


Then as I read through the good news reports I learned the best news came from John.

John 3:16 :- "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life"


This says that a Father God had his son tortured and killed out of immense love for human beings, and having had him humiliated, he felt much, much better and forgave humans for something they didn't do, while still exercising judgment on them for what they did do. But maybe that's too simplistic.




Question: Where is the Good News in this? Or is there even better news?

Of course Jesus confused us about what "good" means. Nobody's good. So perhaps the good news is really bad news, disguised as good. In any event the vast bulk of humanity moves on unaware of any glad tidings. Life is as full of surprises now as it was in the time of Christ. He's not made much of a difference, despite his good news.

[JehovahsWitness]

QUESTION: Jesus teach all humans are bad?

Although Jesus is generally thought of as someone that spread a positive message, he is reported on one occasion to have said "No one is good except one, God". Was Jesus here promoting a negative view of humanity? What did he mean by those words and why did he say them.

MARK 10:17-18


As he was going on his way, a man ran up and fell on his knees before him and put the question to him: “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit everlasting life?� Jesus said to him: “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good except one, God.

GOOD IN THE ABSOLUTE

• In the bible, "goodness" is more than the absence of badness, it has been defined as "moral exellence or virtue". So while it is manifest in charitable acts of kindnes, goodness is essentially a quality of the heart. The Creator, Jehovah God, is presented in scripture as the very personification and essence of goodness, the source of all good gifts and the only one that has the right to establish universal standards of what is good or righteous. It is for this reason then that when a man addressed Jesus as "Good Teacher" (perhaps using the expression as an honorific title), Jesus used the opportunity to humbly voice a universal truth as to who alone is good in the "absolute" supreme sense

Does this mean everyone else is bad?

• No, Jesus often highlighted the good in people around him, indeed Jesus spoke of "good" men with good hearts, refrred to "The good [people]" on earth and urged his followers to imitate God in being good towards all (compare Matthew 5:45, 12:35). Jesus publically commended those around him for their honesty, their generosity and their loyalty and urged those arround him to be kind and merciful. Indeed, one of his most famous parables has come to be known as the Parable of "The Good Sammaitan"

CONCLUSION In Mark 10:17, 18, when Jesus said : “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good, except one, God.� Jesus was not degrading himself or others, neither was he suggesting all humans were evil. Rather he was communicating that only the Creator .can be described as good in the absolute.



FURTHER READING Blog Entry
http://jimspace3000-ya.blogspot.fr/2014 ... xcept.html


RELATED POSTS


Can Jehovah's Witnesses be classified as "good men who do nothing"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 543#853543


What is the GOOD NEWS?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 032#896032



PLEASE NOTE The above represent my faith based beliefs as one of Jehovah's Witnesses

[myth-one.com]

Question: Where is the Good News in this?

The good news is the phrase "whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Physical bodies perish.

Spiritual bodies do not perish.

Thus to gain this everlasting life, we must be born again as spiritual bodied beings.

Spiritual bodied beings have none of the physical traits of physical bodied beings. They have no pain, hunger, thirst, etc. And of course, they cannot perish.

Those humans who are not born again as spirits will perish -- never to live again.

[marco]

Does this mean everyone else is bad?

It does. The statement "nobody is good except God" does not require a panel of experts to pronounce on its meaning. The meaning is clear. Talk of absolute standards and God being in his heaven is just a cover-up for a silly pronouncement by Christ. Yes, Jesus could say silly things, and did. He is lucky to have 21st century admirers to defend him, however inexpertly.

Somebody in Christ's company should have said: "Don't be silly, Jesus. You told us the Samaritan was good. Have you had too much of that watered wine?"

I think such explanations of bad being good reduce Jesus to the status of village idiot. I know that's not the intention. Let's accept he made mistakes, not being God.

[marco]

The good news is the phrase "whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Suddenly a man came out of nowhere and if you "believe" in him you have eternal life. In the beanstalk tale Jack seemed to have been duped into taking magic beans in exchange for his cow. In what sensible way are people to verify the truth of this proposal, for those who accept huge promises with no guarantee are at best gullible? So where is the proof of this "eternal life"? There is no "taste and see" .

Spiritual bodied beings have none of the physical traits of physical bodied beings. They have no pain, hunger, thirst, etc. And of course, they cannot perish.

Presumably they have no feelings and are like winds blowing through the air. Why do people believe this?

[ttruscott]

Of course Jesus confused us about what "good" means.

Good has at least two meanings...no one is good but there are also the good seed. Good only sometimes means morally righteous and sometimes refers to the sinful elect in reference to their predestined end.

Good in name only - sinners do 'good' things but they are not good in GOD's sight because these do not spring from a righteous nature so every good act by a sinner is tinged to some degree or another by selfishness, self righteousness or seeking praise...therefore it misses the mark of good as moral righteousness.

The belief that sinners can be morally good people is anti-Christian and reflects one major difference between the worldly wisdom of assigning moral goodness, ie, righteousness, to morally imperfect people instead of seeking righteousness in Christ.

In other words, taking the word at face value in a verse is pretty safe and a deeper scrutiny leads some to confusion.

[marco]

Good has at least two meanings...

It has many shades of meaning, yes. When mum says: "You're a good boy," the child has a complete understanding of what she means. When Jesus says: "Nobody is good but God" he is making a trite remark that humans are fallible. But humans can be good in their fallibility and even shame God by the heights of goodness they reach without haloes.

In other words, taking the word at face value in a verse is pretty safe and a deeper scrutiny leads some to confusion.

As I said, if Christ was making the trite observation that humans are not gods, fine. The context in which he spoke didn't call for this judgment; it sounds like unnecessary aloofness. Given he's on earth, he should know there are good people. He might not include himself, but there are others who don't arrogate to themselves the title of God's son, who sacrifice themselves but expect no adulation.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 1 by marco]

John 3.16 and Pauline blood-redemption theology is like the Mafia thug who tells the restaurant owner, "Good news, since you are up to date in your protection payments, we won't burn your business to the ground, that's how much the boss loves you!"

The doctrine paint the Father as a monster who needs appeasement.

[myth-one.com]

The good news is the phrase "whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

So where is the proof of this "eternal life"? There is no "taste and see" .

It is correct that there is no taste and see. Once one gains eternal life, it cannot be taken away by definition of eternal. It's all or nothing.

Our only "taste" of life is our 120 years or less of human life we are experiencing at the present time.

Spiritual bodied beings have none of the physical traits of physical bodied beings. They have no pain, hunger, thirst, etc. And of course, they cannot perish.

Presumably they have no feelings and are like winds blowing through the air.

They have no pain, hunger, or other desires of the flesh.

They can move as the wind:

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (John 3:8)

Why do people believe this?

Tough question. Many are born into it. That is, that is what their families and society believe -- and what they will be taught.

In general, I think mankind fears things we do not understand -- the unknown. Mankind's most obvious fear is death. Neither everlasting life nor death can be tested on a trial or sampling basis.

As knowledge has progressed over the years we understand more about our physical death. We know that we die. We see decaying animals and know that our bodies end up likewise.

The part we do not understand is our personalities, our thinking processes, our emotions, our "non-physical processes." These are the processes which many believe separates us from the other animals. We even give it a name, calling it our "soul," and assign to each soul eternal life.

Many religionists treat their fear of death with the defense mechanism of denial. That is, we deny it. We say we will live forever, thus taking on godly characteristics.