The Trinity.

[Elijah John]

Is the dogma of the Trinity

a) Revealed Truth?
b) Is it Biblical? Or
c) Is the doctrine of the Trinity a theological solution to the problem of maintaining monotheism in light of early Christian desire to worship Jesus?

As always, please support your answer.

[Divine Insight]

Is the dogma of the Trinity

a) Revealed Truth?
b) Is it Biblical? Or
c) Is the doctrine of the Trinity a theological solution to the problem of maintaining monotheism in light of early Christian desire to worship Jesus?

As always, please support your answer.

It's my understanding that the conceptual idea of the Trinity was developed several centuries after the Gospels were written.

None the less there are references in the NT that seem to support this idea:

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Here we have Jesus referring to three distinct aspects of "God".

The following is a symbol that tries to map how God relates to the Father, Son, and Holy spirit.



The problem I see with this idea is that the Father is then not God, but merely a facet of God.

So why then should Jesus have us praying to the Father instead of to God?

And why did Jesus (the Son) need to ask (the Father) to forgive people who know not what they do?

It seems to me that this still represents a "God" who has conflicting multiple personalities.

And what does the Holy Spirit represent? What is God if not Spirit?

It seems to me that the idea has an abundance of problems. This would ultimately be an ill-defined God that has multiple personality "disorder". And I think it would be fair to call it a "disorder" when this dogma has the Son asking the Father to not judge people who know not what they do.

Shouldn't the Father already know how to judge people?

It's certainly not a problem-free paradigm to be sure.

[tigger2]

[Replying to post 2 by Divine Insight]

Please see my study of Matt. 28:19 here:

http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.co ... rt-3.html [/url]

[Wootah]

Is the dogma of the Trinity

a) Revealed Truth?
b) Is it Biblical? Or
c) Is the doctrine of the Trinity a theological solution to the problem of maintaining monotheism in light of early Christian desire to worship Jesus?

As always, please support your answer.

a) I'm not sure what you mean by revealed truth. All scripture is revelation/revealed.

b) I've never found it unbiblical. Surely the onus is to demonstrate that it is not biblical

c) No, it is a theological solution to how God can be Good, Just and Merciful. The New Testament clearly indicates we should worship Jesus and it is not some bolted on desire (https://www.gotquestions.org/worship-Jesus.html). And it clearly assigns omni abilities of God to the Father Son and Spirit.

[otseng]

[Replying to post 2 by Divine Insight]

Please see my study of Matt. 28:19 here:

http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.co ... rt-3.html [/url]

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[RightReason]

[Replying to Elijah John]

Is the dogma of the Trinity

a) Revealed Truth?

Yes, because it has been revealed to Christians via Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. I’ve already in previous threads posted Scriptural evidence of the Trinity as well as evidence of Church teaching.

b) Is it Biblical?

Yes. Just google Scriptural evidence supporting the Trinity

c) Is the doctrine of the Trinity a theological solution to the problem of maintaining monotheism in light of early Christian desire to worship Jesus?

I’m not sure what this means. It’s truth. It’s also what was taught and believed by Christendom from the beginning.

[Elijah John]

I’m not sure what this means. It’s truth. It’s also what was taught and believed by Christendom from the beginning.

Do you believe Paul and John, believers with extremely high Christology, were Trinitarians?

If so, please demonstrate.

I don't see it, I think they both stop just short of a Trinitarian understanding of God and Jesus.

Also, how do you account for the early Jewish-Christian sects (like the Ebionites), who had no such notion of a Trinity?

Not all of the "earliest Christians" believed in the Trinity. In fact, it took the Church over 300 years to arrive at that dogma.

[brianbbs67]

I’m not sure what this means. It’s truth. It’s also what was taught and believed by Christendom from the beginning.

Do you believe Paul and John, believers with extremely high Christology, were Trinitarians?

If so, please demonstrate.

I don't see it, I think they both stop just short of a Trinitarian understanding of God and Jesus.

Also, how do you account for the early Jewish-Christian sects (like the Ebionites), who had no such notion of a Trinity?

Not all of the "earliest Christians" believed in the Trinity. In fact, it took the Church over 300 years to arrive at that dogma.

This is correct. The debate was between Arias and Athenasous. Rome thru Constantine backed Athenasous and the rest is history. 325 ad. Then the Arians were exterminated or forced out by mother church.

[StuartJ]

If the Yahweh Elohim of the Hebrew writings was believed to be a trinity, one would expect the writers to make it clear.

There is no such clear indication.

To have the Hebrew scriptures reveal a Christian-like Trinity, you need to - I suggest - really WANT it to be there and go looking for bits that can be interpreted to suit your beliefs.

The "US" we find in Genesis may be remnants of when the Jews, as Canaanites themselves, worshipped many concepts of God, known collectively as the Elohim.

(Yes the Jews - or their ancestors - were polytheistic Canaanites.)

It helps explain the two contradictory Creations and the two contradictory Floods.

Staying strictly with the Hebrew scriptures of everyone's THE Bible as written, the notion of Yahweh, Jesus and the Holy Ghost as "God" is invalid.

The notion of a Trinity comes from dubious interpretations of the Christian writings, which also make no CLEAR indication.

Someone wrote that it took over 300 hundred years for the notion to become dogma for some Christians

And today there are Christian denominations - such as the Christadelphians - who reject such a notion as either revealed or biblical.

It's pertinent to note that if God was a trinity, God would have made that fact clear when inspiring the writing of Scripture, because God would have known that debates like this would arise.

[ttruscott]

c) Is the doctrine of the Trinity a theological solution to the problem of maintaining monotheism in light of early Christian desire to worship Jesus?

No sir, it was the result of the earliest teachers working out how to explain what they knew the Bible was saying about the nature of the Christ after listening to Him tell them who He was and what the OT had to say about that.