Church Life

[SeaPriestess]

Hello,

I recently decided to start going back to church. There are a few ways I want to contribute. There are some things, creative things I want to do with music and maybe theater. For years I struggled with the thought of going back to church because there were just so many things I could not reconcile. I'm not trying to do that here, necessarily. However, it is my suspicion that the type of church I'll feel most comfortable in may not desire a deeper spiritual life but more like being part of a social club. On the other hand, the type of church, where people are really there as an act of meaningful spiritual ritual may tend to be too "religious", legalistic, judgmental, non-inclusive etc...I've been in those churches in the past. My conscience will not let me do that now in my life. But maybe, just maybe, I could still attend those types of churches. How will I navigate the bigotry etc....Isn't that sad though? Not hopeful that I can find authentic Christians/Jesus lovers who are into their faith and church life but who aren't mistaken in their understanding of scripture and how to apply it. Maybe I should just bag the whole idea. Idk....So, my question is, how to navigate in a church environment when you disagree with the general culture of the group and/or what is being taught? When do you know if it's time to move on? I was going to let my conscience guide me, not only my conscience of course, but if I was given the types of opportunities I was looking for, there might be my answer?

Thank you.

[Divine Insight]

Hi SeaPriestess,

You say:

There are some things, creative things I want to do with music and maybe theater.

However, it is my suspicion that the type of church I'll feel most comfortable in may not desire a deeper spiritual life but more like being part of a social club.

Why not join an organization or club that is already focused on the things you are interested in? There are often small public orchestras you can join and meet other musicians. You may not want to play in an orchestra, but by joining the orchestra you will get to know a lot of musicians and many of them may be involved with other groups of musicians that you could get to know.

You might also keep an eye out for folk music festivals or jazz gatherings, etc., that you could attend to meet people who have similar interests.

The other thing I would suggest is to look around for small local theater groups. Some of them are totally unpaid volunteers. Again, that would be good experience playing parts in small plays as well as getting to know other people who have similar interests. You'd be more likely to find other opportunities in theater there than in a church.

[SeaPriestess]

Thank you for your response.

I'm already involved in music outside of a church setting. I specifically wanted to serve in a church setting, playing and singing all the Jesus songs I love that really were powerful to me and still are. I wanted to be able to facilitate that same connection I experience with God through music, for others.

The theater idea I have is quite new. Just thought of it while I was listening to a sermon on Sunday, at a church. I thought how fun and powerful it would be to see an acting out of a parable before the sermon starts.

[2timothy316]

Hello Seaprestess, many are looking for the right church to join. It's like a person that is trying to identify all the counterfeit bills in the world. No one can ever hope to find these bills by comparing counterfeit bills to other counterfeit bills. The only way to find all the counterfeit bills is to study a real bill. Is it even possible to know who truly are God's church? I believe it is.

2 Timothy 3:16, 17 says, "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work."

I have for you a couple of questions. Do you trust the above scripture to be true? Can we trust the Bible as the Word of God? If I showed you the identifying marks of the real 'bill' so-to-speak from the Bible would that help?

[dio9]

[Replying to SeaPriestess]

I would recommend a church that sings John Lenin' Imagine in their worship service. You know a world of people living in peace, a brotherhood of Man, no countries, nothing to kill or die for, no greed or hunger, a brotherhood of Man, all the people sharing all the world.

[William]

[Replying to post 1 by SeaPriestess]

So, my question is, how to navigate in a church environment when you disagree with the general culture of the group and/or what is being taught?

You leave it, because it is not really something you are interested in navigating.

When do you know if it's time to move on?

When you start asking questions like this.

I was going to let my conscience guide me, not only my conscience of course, but if I was given the types of opportunities I was looking for, there might be my answer?

Some people in such position throw it out to the universe - blow with the wind - trust in the unfolding - envision what they want and then let it go and see what happens.

If you were a personality 100% sure of self and comfortable in your own skin, happy to be creative on your own, you could still join a group of some sort - it doesn't have to be religion-based and just be who you are and see how that might effect others in positive ways. Obviously negative expressions are not the company you are looking for.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by SeaPriestess]

It depends on what you are looking for; would it be fair to say you are looking for a religion that appeals to both your emotional, intellectual and artistic side and reflects your personality goals and interests at the present time?

[Overcomer]

SeaPriestess wrote:

So, my question is, how to navigate in a church environment when you disagree with the general culture of the group and/or what is being taught?

I couldn't stay in a church that didn't teach correct primary doctrines. Primary doctrines are as follows:

God exists as a Trinity consisting of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

Jesus Christ came to earth as God Incarnate. He was born of a Virgin.

Jesus was crucified, dead, and rose from the dead, atoning for the sins of humankind.

Salvation is by faith in Christ alone. Good works do not save us. Good works are the evidence that we are saved.

Jesus will return at some point to deal with evil.

The Bible is the inerrant, infallible Word of God.

Most churches will list their statements of faith on their websites. But you will have to spend time in the church to see if they practise what they preach. And don't be afraid to make an appointment with the pastor or ask for an elder to come and visit you. And ask questions of them.

There are secondary doctrines that I could live with even if I didn't agree with them. For example, if a church wants to immerse people when baptizing them, that's fine with me. If they only want to sprinkle somebody on the head, that's fine with me, too.

As for the culture, I understand exactly what you're saying about a social club. I belonged to a church like that and, while there were lots of pot luck suppers and games nights, I wasn't growing as a Christian because I wasn't being fed the Word. So I left it.

I have never belonged to a church that was legalistic because that kind of environment is poison and has little of the love of God in it. I wouldn't want any part of such a church.

The reality is this: Churches are made up of people and people are flawed so there is no such thing as a perfect church. But some are better than others.

But don't just look for a church that gives you what you want. Look at a church where you have something to give to it and the congregation. If a church doesn't have the kind of drama and music you're interested in, maybe it needs you to be the catalyst to introduce those things into it.

Above all, pray for the Holy Spirit to lead you and study the Bible. I find most answers, although not all, come from it.

[SeaPriestess]

Wow, thanks for everyone's response. I will respond in more detail tomorrow.

[RightReason]

[Replying to SeaPriestess]

I recently decided to start going back to church.

Perhaps God calling you back? Recognizing something is missing or you want/need more? As St. Augustine said, “Our heart is restless until it rests in you.�

For years I struggled with the thought of going back to church because there were just so many things I could not reconcile.

Like what?

I'm not trying to do that here, necessarily. However, it is my suspicion that the type of church I'll feel most comfortable in may not desire a deeper spiritual life but more like being part of a social club.

Sounds like that may be the case. But if it is just the social club you are after, you will be disappointed. As not only is that not the point of the Church, social clubs can never please everyone. There will be individuals you do not like. There will be different tastes/styles/preferences, etc. Church is not about the ascetics. Sure, human beings are drawn to ascetics, but clearly we always need more than that. Art, music, architecture appeal to our senses, but anyone who chooses or comes to a church based on those things will always be left wanting. I remember a friend once saying, “Maybe if the mass had better music, I would go. Why does the music have to be so dreadful?� Another friend would say, “Maybe if Father so and so were a better public speaker and more dynamic I would get myself out of bed on Sunday morning�. But really? Do you think if the Church ramped up its entertainment value she could keep people interested? And if they are coming for the charismatic priest or bad ass choir is that a good thing?

On the other hand, the type of church, where people are really there as an act of meaningful spiritual ritual may tend to be too "religious", legalistic, judgmental, non-inclusive etc...I've been in those churches in the past. My conscience will not let me do that now in my life. But maybe, just maybe, I could still attend those types of churches. How will I navigate the bigotry etc....

You lost me. Meaningful spiritual ritual? So, you admit there is such a thing as meaningful spiritual ritual? And it has not been your experience that such is possible without bigotry, legalism, or non acceptance? Do you really believe that? Are you saying the really religious and spiritual people you know are judgmental bigots? That doesn’t sound very religious or spiritual to me. Are you also willing to admit many things in life are a matter of perception?

For example, you may believe abortion is ok. I may believe abortion is not ok. Does that make me a judgmental bigot regarding abortion, or do I just believe something differently than you and you conclude my views are judgmental and bigoted because they aren’t what you believe?

Isn't that sad though? Not hopeful that I can find authentic Christians/Jesus lovers who are into their faith and church life but who aren't mistaken in their understanding of scripture and how to apply it.

Yes, it is a little sad that you are not hopeful that authentic Christians exist or that Christians actually know and understand Scripture. It is sad that that has not been your experience or that you might not even believe such is possible.

Maybe I should just bag the whole idea.

The whole idea of what? Hoping to find a social group to pursue your love of music and the arts? Or the idea of hoping to find a church comprised of those who love Jesus and get it? Or the idea that you are looking for a church to entertain you?

Idk....So, my question is, how to navigate in a church environment when you disagree with the general culture of the group and/or what is being taught?

Why would you want to be a part of a group that you don’t believe in? There are plenty of social clubs to tantalize us. You might want to ask yourself what else is drawing you in and why? You might also want to ask yourself what is it you disagree with the Church about and why? As G.K. Chesterton said, “I don’t want a church to be right when I am right. I want a church to be right when I am wrong.� Wouldn’t you agree? Are you seeking a church that fits your definition or are you open to simply seeking the Church?

When do you know if it's time to move on?

If the organization is teaching that which is contrary to Christ, you should probably consider shaking the dust from your sandals and moving on, but you might also want to make sure it is the Church that is wrong and not you – because you just might be exactly where you should be.

I was going to let my conscience guide me, not only my conscience of course, but if I was given the types of opportunities I was looking for, there might be my answer?

A conscience can only guide us if it is a well formed conscience in the first place. As for opportunity you were looking for, I’m not sure what that means. If you are looking for something other than God in a church, I suspect you are looking for the wrong the thing. You might try the jazz club down the street