"Apart from me you can do nothing"

[Elijah John]

In the Gospel of John Jesus is quoted as saying " apart from me you can do nothing".

Yet Elijah called fire down from Heaven and slew 400 priests of Baal. Then eventually ascended to Heaven on a fiery chariot.

For debate, did Elijah have Christ in his life? Had Elijah recieved "recieved Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior"? Was he "born again"? What is your evidence that this is so?

(Please avoid circular arguments)

[Divine Insight]

In the Gospel of John Jesus is quoted as saying " apart from me you can do nothing".

Yet Elijah called fire down from Heaven and slew 400 priests of Baal. Then eventually ascended to Heaven on a fiery chariot.

For debate, did Elijah have Christ in his life? Had Elijah recieved "recieved Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior"? Was he "born again"? What is your evidence that this is so?

(Please avoid circular arguments)

No evidence required:

Jesus made the claim: "Before Abraham was, I am".

Therefore it's reasonable to believe that Jesus existed when Elijah had lived.

As far as proving any relationship Elijah may have had with Jesus, that's not relevant. No one would need to prove the specifics of that relationship. All they need to do is show that such a relationship is possible.

And,...

John.8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

This opens the door to Jesus being available in the days of Elijah. That's all that needs to be shown.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 2 by Divine Insight]

If that is the case, there is still no evidence that Elijah or anyone else in the OT believed that Jesus existed before Abraham. And wouldn't they have needed to believe this?

How does one have a relationship with someone they do not believe in?

Elijah, (and the rest) called on YHVH alone for their power, not "Christ" nor the Messiah.

To say that something is "possible" is not to say that something is "probable" and really amouints to little more than speculation.

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 2 by Divine Insight]

If that is the case, there is still no evidence that Elijah or anyone else in the OT believed that Jesus existed before Abraham. And wouldn't they have needed to believe this?

How does one have a relationship with someone they do not believe in?

Elijah, (and the rest) called on YHVH alone for their power, not "Christ" nor the Messiah.

To say that something is "possible" is not to say that something is "probable" and really amouints to little more than speculation.

Oh please. This whole religion is nothing more than speculation.

Keep in mind that according to the New Testament Jesus said that he and the Father are one. Therefore if Elijah had a relationship with God then that's sufficient.

You seem to be forgetting that in Christianity Jesus is God. He can't be anything other than God in Christianity. So Jesus and Yahweh are one and the same in Christianity. Christianity is not polytheism, nor was Jesus believed to be a demigod Son of God. In fact, Christians often get quite upset at that suggestion, even though the New Testament sure makes it appear that Jesus was a demigod born of a mortal virgin woman. They reject that idea.

For a Christian Jesus and God are one in the same entity.

Therefore if Elijah had a relationship with God, he necessarily had a relationship with Jesus.

You don't seem to understand Christianity based on the types of question you keep posing to followers of Christianity. <---- This is just an observation, not intended as a derogatory comment.

In Christianity you cannot treat Jesus and God as though they are separate entities. To do so would create polytheism which Christianity rejects.

You may not understand, or accept an idea of the Trinity. I'm with you on that. I reject that notion too. None the less, in Christianity the idea is well-accepted. So all we can do is say that we don't agree with the religion. Period.

Any attempt to argue the Jesus and God are two different entities would be futile.

You may as well just say that you reject Christianity at that point.

[dio9]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

God is present in his prophets. God has always been Father Mother and Son, all together. So as the eternal father mother and son of course Elijah knew the savior's nature of God.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

God is present in his prophets. God has always been Father Mother and Son, all together. So as the eternal father mother and son of course Elijah knew the savior's nature of God.

What, no daughter in the Godhead?

What is your evidence that Elijah saw God as "Father, Mother and Son"? What is your evidence that Elijah saw God as anyone other than the One LORD, YHVH?

After all, his name means "my God is YHVH".

[ttruscott]

How does one have a relationship with someone they do not believe in?

IF his relationship with the Messiah before the time of the revelation of the Messiah was kept hidden in the background and expressed only in allusions then the absence of the mention of the relationship does not prove he had no such relationship.

[shnarkle]

In the Gospel of John Jesus is quoted as saying " apart from me you can do nothing".

Yet Elijah called fire down from Heaven and slew 400 priests of Baal. Then eventually ascended to Heaven on a fiery chariot.

For debate, did Elijah have Christ in his life? Had Elijah recieved "recieved Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior"? Was he "born again"? What is your evidence that this is so?

(Please avoid circular arguments)

Paul says that Christ was slain from the foundation of the world. Many beleive that this refers to Christ being destined to die on a cross, but I think what Paul is saying is that creation is the result of the slain Christ. Christ is the means of creation and it is through an emptying of himself into creation that this occurs.

Christ is essentially the ground of being, therefore anything that exists cannot exist apart from Christ. Paul puts it this way, "In him we live and move and have our being".

Christ is eternal being which Paul distinguishes from God in his expansion of the Shema.

for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one LORD, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. 1 Cor. 8:6

I think this fits right in with what John says in his introduction. It wouldn't make any sense if he had said, "In the beginning was God" because God is the source of all that exists, and therefore, apart from eternal existence; God doesn't exist. Therefore John says, "In the beginning was the word" because it is the word that exists eternally whereas God is the origin of the word. People associate eternal being with God, but this is an attribute of God; it is God's attribute. However attributes are not equivalent to what or who they are attributed to. The attribute is not God, but apart from or without this attribute; God doesn't exist.

All of these doctrines of recited confessions are pointless. No one does anything to be born or even conceived, and it is the same way with a spiritual birth. It's something that happens to someone, and it clearly happened to Elijah.