When was the Gospel of Matthew really written?

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polonius
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When was the Gospel of Matthew really written?

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steveb1
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Re: When was the Gospel of Matthew really written?

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polonius
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Mark chapter 13 - an unsolved riddle.

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Post by polonius »

StevenB1 posted:

If it's a problem, it didn't originate with Matthew, because Matthew was copying Mark, whose Gospel was the first to introduce Jesus's prophecies about the fall of Jerusalem and its possible relation to "God's end-times schedule".
Mark's Jesus, not Matthew's, was the first to announce the coming fall of the capital city.
RESPONSE: You did some good historical research, but the answer to the question of how Mark (c 70) contained a prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem remains uncertain.


www.thoughtco.com/the-gospel-according-to-mark...

Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple (Mark 13: 1-4)
Jesus’ prediction of the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem is one of the most important features in Mark’s gospel. Scholars have been sharply divided on how to deal with it: was it a genuine prediction, demonstrating Jesus’ power, or is it evidence that Mark was written after the Temple was destroyed in 70 CE?


New American Bible: Footnote to Mark’s gospel

Modern research often proposes as the author an unknown Hellenistic Jewish Christian, possibly in Syria, and perhaps shortly after the year 70.


rosetta.reltech.org/TC/v13/Head2008.pdf

The Greek text of the Gospel of Mark is certainly the worst attested of all the canonical gospels. It is extant in only three papyrus manuscripts, none of which are by any means complete, and of which only one ( 45) is definitely earlier than the fourth century uncials;1 while one other is perhaps contemporary with them ( 88).2 Thus our knowledge of the text of Mark is more dependent on the early uncial texts than is the case with the other gospels, where early papyri and more substantial comments in church fathers supplement the early uncial texts.3

steveb1
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Re: Mark chapter 13 - an unsolved riddle.

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Post by steveb1 »

[Replying to post 3 by polonius.advice]

Sure, if Jesus was a historical figure, he could have made a fairly accurate prophecy about Jerusalem's destruction. Or his "biographers" could have put it on his lips after the Fall had occurred, in order to make it look like Jesus was an accurate prophet.

Without access to time travel, I guess we'll never know for sure!

:)

polonius
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Re: Mark chapter 13 - an unsolved riddle.

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Post by polonius »

steveb1 wrote: [Replying to post 3 by polonius.advice]

Sure, if Jesus was a historical figure, he could have made a fairly accurate prophecy about Jerusalem's destruction. Or his "biographers" could have put it on his lips after the Fall had occurred, in order to make it look like Jesus was an accurate prophet.

Without access to time travel, I guess we'll never know for sure!

:)
RESPONSE:

Yes. It's difficult to evaluate early Mark. I understand there are only three fragmentary manuscripts written before 70 AD.

And of course the "longer Mark " ending is thought to have been added in the early second century. So any interpolations and dating will probably remain a mystery.

I'm glad to encounter a fellow (amateur) historian who replies to questions intelligently. If you've followed some of my other posts, you probably can see that I'm hounded by Fundamentalists! :(

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Re: Mark chapter 13 - an unsolved riddle.

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Post by steveb1 »

polonius.advice wrote:
steveb1 wrote: [Replying to post 3 by polonius.advice]

Sure, if Jesus was a historical figure, he could have made a fairly accurate prophecy about Jerusalem's destruction. Or his "biographers" could have put it on his lips after the Fall had occurred, in order to make it look like Jesus was an accurate prophet.

Without access to time travel, I guess we'll never know for sure!

:)
RESPONSE:

Yes. It's difficult to evaluate early Mark. I understand there are only three fragmentary manuscripts written before 70 AD.

And of course the "longer Mark " ending is thought to have been added in the early second century. So any interpolations and dating will probably remain a mystery.

I'm glad to encounter a fellow (amateur) historian who replies to questions intelligently. If you've followed some of my other posts, you probably can see that I'm hounded by Fundamentalists! :(
Try not to let 'em get to you! Typically, "the ears have walls" (see what I did there?) but maybe you'll get through to some of them - and keep on honing your thinking and writing. It's a truism, but our opponents help us define ourselves.


Yes, that "longer ending" of Mark seems to be a later scribal addition "to make sure" that Mark's resurrection narrative had a "properly" presented appearances narrative...

liamconnor
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Re: When was the Gospel of Matthew really written?

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Post by liamconnor »

[Replying to post 1 by polonius.advice]

Could you please make a debate question in the OP?

brianbbs67
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Post #8

Post by brianbbs67 »

Well Mark 16:9 to the end, was added by a copiest. Probably, about 450. Every priest knew it was what it was but thought it was too beautiful to exclude. Thus goes our new testament. Its sketchy at best.

dio9
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Post #9

Post by dio9 »

after reading through these posts I can definitely say , I can't say for sure.
Jesus may very well have said the Temple would be destroyed , or if he didn't a redactor may have said it for him. Anyhow these irregularities are what make studying the New testament so interesting.

For_The_Kingdom
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Re: When was the Gospel of Matthew really written?

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