Who is responsible?

[Peds nurse]

Imagine that a car manufacturing company, made the standard cars that we all drive today. It is equipped with a manual that tells the driver how to use the car efficiently. Although the car is equipped to engage in speeds of 120 miles per hour, the manual cautions the driver of the hazards of driving at such speeds.

Question for debate. Should the manufacturing company be held liable for people getting into accidents and sometimes causing death by driving at speeds not recommended?

I think we can translate this to the spiritual realm. Why should God be held accountable for people who make faulty decisions with their life, sometimes hurting or killing others?

[jgh7]

I don't only not have a problem with the way God does things, I feel under qualified to even have a complaint.

Best wishes for a spectacular day/evening

I feel the same way. I think that lesson is well taught in the book of Job. That is ultimately my argument when people say God is to blame for things. But that's usually the last thing they want to hear.

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 36 by ttruscott]

Mr. ttruscott, you did not address the post. You did not respond to the question.

TSGracchus wrote:
"If I, having the knowledge and power to stop it, allow my children to be tortured, mutilated, molested, marketed and killed, am I blameless because it was not me but another of my children who committed the deed?"

You merely accused me of being a sinner, a personal attack. You went on and on with pietistic preaching but did not answer the question. Essentially your response was, "Believe as I believe or go to hell." That is very Christian of you.

My whole post answered the question! Is it my fault you do not get it because you don't know Christian doctrine?? Maybe so, I'll try again.

You wrote:

If I, having the knowledge and power to stop it, allow my children to be tortured, mutilated, molested, marketed and killed, am I blameless because it was not me but another of my children who committed the deed?

If I, having the knowledge and power to stop it, - IF GOD stops the sin of the evil ones then no one will ever repent as they love their sin too much unless they get to see the pain and suffering it causes. Alright so far...?

allow my children to be tortured, mutilated, molested, marketed and killed, - and I replied that not every person is HIS child, Deuteronomy 32:5 "They have acted corruptly toward Him, They are not His children, because of their defect; But are a perverse and crooked generation. OR: their defect is that they are not HIS children...with a bow of reverence to Hebrews 12:8 If you are not disciplined--and everyone undergoes discipline--then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all.

Then I explained that we are all sinners (and if that causes you umbrage, yikes...) and only by experiencing sin and the pain it causes will those who can repent and turn from sin do so as they do not do that because of the love of GOD for them nor for HIS warnings of punishments to come...

am I blameless because it was not me but another of my children who committed the deed? - IF I had no influence upon this 'other' child to do the dirty deed and IF this other child did what he did from an expression of his own free will, then how am I, is GOD, to blame? If your son kills your daughter against your will and without your permission express or implied, are you saying you are guilty for the evil of your son???

Christianity is not like that: Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son:

Give me a break. You will apply such foolishness to GOD but I bet you would not apply it to yourself, sigh.

This is what my reply meant---where were you?

[William]

[Replying to post 46 by shnarkle]

They can tear up the roads and freeways, they can outlaw cars that go more than 5 mph. They can require that all engines be governed to not exceed 5 mph.

"There will come a day when it's illegal for humans to drive cars because machines do it better." ~ Dan Brown

[2timothy316]

As a Christian, I don't have any objections to the way God chooses to run things. But I find apologetic arguments that attempt to justify His choices in regards to this topic to be lackluster.

I don't only not have a problem with the way God does things, I feel under qualified to even have a complaint.

I agree here as well. We find explanations 'lackluster' because we try to use our personal since of what justice is. Yet while we only have a small understanding of why God has chosen the way He has. Yet, God hasn't left us without hope.

Folks that are challenging God to do something with His power need to understand, that day is coming. All people will be faced with a choice. Choose the blessing and obey or be stubborn and prepare for judgement. Folks can make the choice now to follow the commandments and principles in the Bible. They don't have to wait for God to reveal His awesome unrivaled power.

[TSGracchus]

[Replying to post 62 by ttruscott]

So the argument seems to be that you have to be allowed to sin so you can repent. Thus it is important to allow Sam to be tortured and murdered so that his murderer, Tom will learn to repent? Those children are starving because they were, by God's omnipotent will, born sinners? And they have to be made sorry for their very existence?

Psychologists have long known that if you want to deter unwanted behavior, you provide negative reinforcement immediately when that behavior is manifest. Why doesn't your God know that?

Can you even begin to understand why reasonable people find Christianity a disgusting and repugnant set of doctrines?

[shnarkle]

[Replying to post 65 by TSGracchus]

Psychologists have long known that if you want to deter unwanted behavior, you provide negative reinforcement immediately when that behavior is manifest. Why doesn't your God know that?

I'm not speaking for ttruscot here, but he's already pointed out that his God has done precisely that. He's articulated a position that people who exist today are here because of their previous 'unwanted behavior'. You just articulated what he's presented, yet you don't seem to see the connection.

Can you even begin to understand why reasonable people find Christianity a disgusting and repugnant set of doctrines?

He's not presenting mainstream Christian doctrine, and the fact that you've pointed out what you believe to be reasonable is in agreement with what he has posted indicates that your disgust must be originating elsewhere. You brought it with you.

[bluethread]

[Replying to post 59 by William]

It is pretty simple. What are the characteristics that one sees in all those who blame deities that differentiate them from all those who do not blame a deity and vis versa?

[William]

[Replying to post 67 by bluethread]

As I have already stated, I do not see any significant differences. Do you? If so, list them. Perhaps even start a thread to debate them. I am all ears. Spit it out.

[William]

[Replying to post 66 by shnarkle]

He's not presenting mainstream Christian doctrine...

Well it is up to Christians to correct him rather than remain silent about it. Peds nurse created the thread, and has said nothing about this members comments at all. This leaves the reader naturally enough thinking Peds nurse agrees and supports this 'non-mainstream Christian doctrine' by her silence or unwillingness to rebuke her Christian brother for his blasphemy, as do all other Christians contributing to this thread.

Their silence speaks loudly that they agree with this doctrine and the one consistently preaching it is speaking for them and their idea of GOD as well.

How else can the reader interpret the events?

[shnarkle]

[Replying to post 66 by shnarkle]

He's not presenting mainstream Christian doctrine...

Well it is up to Christians to correct him rather than remain silent about it.

Not really. He's free to believe whatever doctrines he pleases, and no one is under any obligation to correct what he believes because you can't correct a belief. He even uses the biblical texts to support his position. Anyone regardless of religious affiliation or a lack thereof can disagree and debate his posts if they choose, but no one is compelled to do so.

Peds nurse created the thread, and has said nothing about this members comments at all. This leaves the reader naturally enough thinking Peds nurse agrees and supports this 'non-mainstream Christian doctrine' by her silence or unwillingness to rebuke her Christian brother for his blasphemy, as do all other Christians contributing to this thread.

I doubt it. I can't speak for Christians, but it never occured to me to think that whatever someone posts online is automatically agreed upon doctrine for all Christians. There's a JW on this forum who has all sorts of doctrines that are notoriously antithetical to mainstream Christianity, yet plenty of people have no desire whatsoever to engage in debate over them because it's a pointless exercise when they're simply expressing their own denomination's beliefs.

Their silence speaks loudly that they agree with this doctrine and the one consistently preaching it is speaking for them and their idea of GOD as well.

Not at all, and the same holds true for atheists, agnostics, skeptics etc. There are all sorts of denominations of atheism which people ascribe to, and which fellow atheists are under no compulsion to agree or disagree with. It's ironic that you refer to "their idea of GOD" which is essentially just another type of atheism. I didn't hear you pitching a fit over that so I guess we can safely assume that your silence speaks loudly as well, right?

How else can the reader interpret the events?

By your logic the reader must assume that you have no problem with this strange atheism. In fact, i've never noticed any atheists, agnostics, skeptics, etc. ever protest these odd atheistic doctrines.