Is it really that easy to go to Heaven?

[Elijah John]

From another thread in response to this question:

Yes to the narrow gate, but how does one get through it?

In response, Tcg made this astute observation:

By joining the most popular religion in the world, it's the widest narrow gate known to mankind.

This is the verse from Jesus alluded to:

"For the gate is narrow, and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

-Have the millions of Evangelical Christians in the world who believe that Jesus died to "pay for" their sins, found the narrow gate and the hard road to life?

-What's so hard about believing that Jesus died to "pay for" your sins? Especially when millions are indoctrinated from childhood and by culture to believe just that?

-Is it really that easy? Simply to believe that Jesus died as a blood atonement for you in order to pave your way to Heaven? Or is something more, or something different needed to appropriate the Grace of God and get to Heaven?

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 9 by Elijah John]

Yes, that's one interpretation. There are probably thousands of different interpretations of this and other passages.

Tcg's interpretation that nominal Christians being a third of the worlds population would constitute being on the broad way is an interpretation some would agree with although since Jesus only spoke of two roads (and nominal Christians only constitute about a third of the earths population) then according to Tcg's interpretation, they would still be smaller than the group who were not Christian.

If you're claiming that Jehovah's Witness are the "narrow gate and the hard road" which leads to life, and that other forms of Christianity constitute the "wide gate and the easy road" which lead to destruction, I don't think it's as simple as that, do you?

Isn't it possible, even likely that God and Jesus will "pluck out" for salvation people from all forms of Christianity, and even people from other religions based on their heart attitude towards God, as they understand Him?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 11 by Elijah John]

I haven't made any claim and I have no intention of making any claim or presenting my own interpretation of Jesus' words in this thread. I hope that is clear.

I am just taking a closer factual look at the numbers that are implied in tcg's claim, is that okay with you?

Isn't it possible, even likely that God and Jesus will "pluck out" for salvation people from all forms of Christianity, and even people from other religions based on their heart attitude towards God, as they understand Him?

That's one interpretation. Anything is possible; if one interprets the narrow road "being a nice person and treating others with respect" then that would include any person whether they believed in God or not. In what way would that be "narrow"? do you think respectful people are a "minority"? I would hazard a guess that the majority of humans on earth would fit that. Naturally violent or pyscopathically evil people are in my opinion the minority when it comes to human nature.

[dianaiad]

[Replying to post 11 by Elijah John]

I haven't made any claim and I have no intention of making any claim or presenting my own interpretation of Jesus' words in this thread. I hope that is clear.

I am just taking a closer factual look at the numbers that are implied in tcg's claim, is that okay with you?

Isn't it possible, even likely that God and Jesus will "pluck out" for salvation people from all forms of Christianity, and even people from other religions based on their heart attitude towards God, as they understand Him?

That's one interpretation. Anything is possible; if one interprets the narrow road "being a nice person and treating others with respect" then that would include any person whether they believed in God or not. In what way would that be "narrow"? do you think respectful people are a "minority"? I would hazard a guess that the majority of humans on earth would fit that. Naturally violent or pyscopathically evil people are in my opinion the minority when it comes to human nature.

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[JehovahsWitness]

Tcg made this astute observation:

By joining the most popular religion in the world, it's the widest narrow gate known to mankind.

tcg did indeed make an astute observation. I would agree with you on that.

I think if we look at what is the most popular religion the figures prove that those in it still constitute a smaller proportion of humanity as a whole. That said, I would agree with you when you said ...

Tcg made this astute observation

If you're claiming that Jehovah's Witness are the "narrow gate and the hard road" which leads to life, and that other forms of Christianity constitute the "wide gate and the easy road" which lead to destruction, I don't think it's as simple as that, do you?

No, I have not made that claim nor will I be presenting my interpretation in this thread, I hope that is clear.




JW

[ttruscott]

Isn't it possible, even likely that God and Jesus will "pluck out" for salvation people from all forms of Christianity, and even people from other religions based on their heart attitude towards God, as they understand Him?

Biblical teachings:
- everyone knows the truth about YHWH's Divinity and power
- all people are guilty for not giving YHWH the honour and obedience they know HE deserves as our creator.
- all people have repressed this knowledge because they love sin more than the truth about HIM so they invent all kinds of thinking about GOD and religion to enjoy life the way they want, not HIS way.

That Christianity is so large a religion would seem to make it part of the broad easy way...the false Church may be much larger within Christendom than the real Church and fills every corner of Christendom.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 15 by ttruscott]

what do you mean when you say "church"?

I find people give a variety of meanings to this word.

(I don't think you mean "building" but a group of people, identifiable as a group how?)

[Overcomer]

Elijah John wrote:

What's so hard about believing that Jesus died to "pay for" your sins? Especially when millions are indoctrinated from childhood and by culture to believe just that?

I don't find the indoctrination hypothesis a compelling one. It is truly inadequate as an explanation re: the large number of people who accept Christ as Lord and Saviour. For one thing, it slides easily into the genetic fallacy, that is, that because someone grew up in a Christian home, that makes their Christian beliefs wrong.

I also think it is an example of another fallacy, namely, the hasty generalization. Even if you find some people who might truly have been brainwashed to believe certain things about God and the Bible, you cannot automatically dismiss millions of people as having been indoctrinated as well. Moving from the particular to the general -- it just doesn't work. That's why it's a fallacy.

Indeed, we all have parents and we all grow up influenced by their beliefs, but I don't think that should be called indoctrination. Most of us are given the freedom to reject those beliefs or stick with them, as there are other influences on our lives -- educators, peers, the media, for example.

And, given that many people come to Christ as adults, that indicates that there are many believers who were not indoctrinated as children. They may be atheists, Muslims, Hindus, New Agers, etc. who choose to believe because of the evidence. That includes people like David Wood, a former atheist, who explains why he became a Christian here:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=da ... ORM=VRDGAR

Abdu Murray is a former Muslim:

https://www.abdumurray.com/

Marcia Montenegro is a former astrologer/New Ager:

http://christiananswersforthenewage.org/

Elijah John wrote:

But then again, James is the "faith without works is dead" guy.

That line of thinking seems more in harmony with Jesus than does the theology of Paul or Evangelicaqls who posit "sola fida".

There is no contradiction between James and Paul. James is saying that, if one truly has faith, that faith is lived out in one's life. If it isn't, then real faith isn't there. He isn't saying that one has to earn one's salvation by works. Put simply, good works don't result in salvation; salvation results in good works.

See here:

https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-died ... -sins.html

https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-11- ... mes-220-26

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 15 by ttruscott]

what do you mean when you say "church"?

Ummm, the total of those who call themselves Christian with the scattering of the sinful elect that are the actual church...Cain loves the religious life.

[Tcg]

Tcg's interpretation that nominal Christians being a third of the worlds population would constitute being on the broad way...

I didn't state anything even remotely like this. You can either review what I did say and attempt to address that, or continue to argue against a straw man of your own creation.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 14 by JehovahsWitness]

Elijah John wrote:


If you're claiming that Jehovah's Witness are the "narrow gate and the hard road" which leads to life, and that other forms of Christianity constitute the "wide gate and the easy road" which lead to destruction, I don't think it's as simple as that, do you?

you replied

No, I have not made that claim nor will I be presenting my interpretation in this thread, I hope that is clear.

]

Why not?

I would like to see your presentation.