What does it take to be "washed in the blood"?

[Elijah John]

For debate:

1) What does it take to become "washed in the blood"? To be covered by Jesus sacrifice. Does being "bloodwashed" cover all one's sins, past present and future?

Just after the Lord's Prayer in the Sermon on the Mount Jesus said:

14.For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly father will also forgive you, 15.but if you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive you.

.

2) In verse 15, did Jesus make an exception for those "washed in the blood"?

3) How do these verses from Matthew 6 fit with the Pauline doctrine of being "washed in the blood"?

Please answer any combination of the above.

[imhereforyou]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

1) What does it take to become "washed in the blood"? To be covered by Jesus sacrifice. Does being "bloodwashed" cover all one's sins, past present and future?

Some say YES, it covers everything, past, present and future. Some say once this is done, it's good for as long as you live (with one exception though not everyone understand nor agrees with this exception).

2) In verse 15, did Jesus make an exception for those "washed in the blood"?

Probably not, if you're a loose interpreter of scriptures - maybe so if you're strict. It's all about interpretation.

3) How do these verses from Matthew 6 fit with the Pauline doctrine of being "washed in the blood"?

Can you supply how this Pauline doctrine speaks to this?

[Wootah]

For debate:

1) What does it take to become "washed in the blood"? To be covered by Jesus sacrifice. Does being "bloodwashed" cover all one's sins, past present and future?

Just after the Lord's Prayer in the Sermon on the Mount Jesus said:

14.For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly father will also forgive you, 15.but if you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive you.

.

2) In verse 15, did Jesus make an exception for those "washed in the blood"?

3) How do these verses from Matthew 6 fit with the Pauline doctrine of being "washed in the blood"?

Please answer any combination of the above.

Being washed in the blood means accepting Jesus's sacrifice for your sins. Jesus died for all sins.

You are making a modus ponens error. I think ... i am getting rusty.

If p then q does not mean if q then p.

If you do not forgive others then God will not forgive you does not mean that if you forgive others then God will forgive you.

Essentially a Christian believes that deep down no mattter what we profess, no one forgives. We both know that forgiveness has levels. I have forgiven people and years later realised there is more to forgive.

So even if i granted the simplistic understanding of if you forgive you are forgiven i doubt anyone has done it.

Actually i don't think one can forgive until one realises that they are guilty as well. How can i forgive another person for lying unless i know how easily i can lie? At the very least it makes it easier. Once i know how tempting and susceptible i am to sin it makes it a lot easier to understand those that sin against me. And of course i realise how guilty i am.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

the Pauline doctrine of being "washed in the blood"?

Not a term Paul uses, or indeed used anywhere else to convey the idea you intend.

However, the concept is certainly found, especially in Revelation and in Hebrews.

[Elijah John]

Can you supply how this Pauline doctrine speaks to this?

I don't thik Paul does speak to this condition laid down by Jesus, and that is part of my point. In the LORD's prayer, Jesus seems to be making the condition that to recieve God's forgiveness, one must be willing to ask for forgiveness from the Father, and be willing to forgive others. No mention of the need of "believing that he was going to die to "pay for" our sins.

And he does not seem to make an exception for the "blood washed" that is, for those who believe the "right things" about his impending crucifixion and resurrection. Seems the "bloodwashed" too, need to be willing to forgive others in order to recieve forgiveness from God.

Paul, by contrast, teaches that in order to recieve God's forgiveness, we need to do just that, to believe that Jesus died to pay for our sins. Paul, unlike Jesus, never teaches that forgiveness is dependent on our willingness to forgive others, as well.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

the Pauline doctrine of being "washed in the blood"?

Not a term Paul uses, or indeed used anywhere else to convey the idea you intend.

However, the concept is certainly found, especially in Revelation and in Hebrews.

Perhaps Paul did not use the exact word or phrase, but it is a concept that can be traced back to Paul. He would probably use the term "in Christ" instead.

[Elijah John]

Being washed in the blood means accepting Jesus's sacrifice for your sins. Jesus died for all sins.

That's what I thought it meant. Believing, accepting that Jesus died for one's sins.

If you do not forgive others then God will not forgive you does not mean that if you forgive others then God will forgive you.

On the contary,

Blessed are the merciful, for they will receive mercy.

Essentially a Christian believes that deep down no mattter what we profess, no one forgives. We both know that forgiveness has levels. I have forgiven people and years later realised there is more to forgive.

So even if i granted the simplistic understanding of if you forgive you are forgiven i doubt anyone has done it.

Actually i don't think one can forgive until one realises that they are guilty as well. How can i forgive another person for lying unless i know how easily i can lie? At the very least it makes it easier. Once i know how tempting and susceptible i am to sin it makes it a lot easier to understand those that sin against me. And of course i realise how guilty i am.

Yes, no one forgives perfectly. Yet Jesus says we must in order to recieve forgiveness from the Father. Hopefully, implicit in Jesus command, is that it is sufficient that we be willling to forgive, as God gives us the grace to do so. We all need God's help for this.

But my main point, is that Jesus does not seem (in the LORD's prayer anyway) to be making an exception for the "bloodwashed" those who believe the "right things" about Jesus impending crucifixion and resurrection. They too, must be willing to forgive others in order to recieve God's forgiveness.

Jesus did not teach complex, Pauline substitutionary blood-atonement theology in the Sermon on the Mount, just simple repentance and the necessity of forgiving others. Why do you think that is?

[tam]

Peace to you!

[Replying to post 7 by Elijah John]

They too, must be willing to forgive others in order to recieve God's forgiveness.

Well, yes, of course. Belief in Christ is more than just hearing His words or even just believing in His existence. How can one say that one believes in Christ if one does not do as He says? (obviously we will fall short at times; He covers us where we do fall short) But if we believe in Him, then we believe in all He said as well, and we DO what He SAID. Faith leading to works (or was it ever truly faith in the first place?)

As Christ said:


"Why do you call me Lord, and do not do the things I say?"


He then continues:

"As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on the rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete.�

Blessed are the merciful, for they will receive mercy.

Also this:

For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. Matthew 6:14






Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 7 by Elijah John]

'Blessed are the merciful for they shall receive mercy.'

Also

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Are you poor in spirit?

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 7 by Elijah John]

'Blessed are the merciful for they shall receive mercy.'

Also

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Are you poor in spirit?

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

Are you pure in heart?

Be honest