God's Nature and the Kenosis

[steveb1]

Paul cites an ancient hymn in Philippians 2:7-8:

6 Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to cling to, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross.…

I myself tend to conceptualize this Pauline Jesus as a pre-existent, archangelic-type of celestial figure - not ontologically God, but rather something more in the line of the heavenly Son of Man, pre-existent Messiah, Logos, and/or the Adam Kadmon. Mainstream Christianity conceptualizes this Jesus as ontological God - the second Person of the Trinity.

In both cases, God is portrayed as "emptying" himself, which is the meaning of the NT Greek term, "kenosis".

In the first case, God involves himself in a process of "giving out of himself" to Jesus. In the second case, Jesus himself, as "God", performs the self-emptying.

What does this capacity for self-emptying say about God's identity and nature? Is it a metaphor, analogy and/or allegory? The idea is not limited to Christianity - even Lurianic Kabbalah postulates that the Ein Sof "retracted" ("tzimtzum") Itself in order to "make room" for Creation.

Can a Being, perfect unto Itself/Himself, literally perform self-emptying? Can He empty himself without losing a portion of his omnipotence and self-identity? If so, how can this process best be conceptualized? How has it, in fact, been conceptualized in christology through the Christian centuries?

Obviously, this question is central to Christianity's understanding of God as One who acts with compassion, and for Jesus, who - whether or not ontological God - emptied himself for humanity's sake. Can this be done as a literal fact - as a literal activity within the Godhead - without any diminution of God's self-perfection?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to steveb1]

it makes more sense to me that Jesus the man would empty himself so as to be filled with God. Question for me is, what is it that Jesus the man would empty himself of.

If we say God emptied himself, what did God emptying himself of, God? This couldn't be a complete emptying of God into the man Jesus.

It is only reasonable that Jesus created the empty space within himself making space for God to fill up. And in this way it follows any one of us can theoretically make space for God in us too.

It's a metaphor.

Jesus didn't have to literally make a hole in his body or mind in order to "fill" it with something else.


JW

[steveb1]

[Replying to post 1 by steveb1]

6 Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to cling to, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness.

What would you say "the form of" [God/a servant] actually means, or Paul intends to convey, in this passage?

I would think that "form" means not ontological God, but rather "likeness" or "image" (in a similar but more intense sense that Adam was thought to be in God's image). Paul keeps using "form": Jesus was in the form of God; Jesus found himself in the form of a man; Jesus took on the form of a servant.

This consistent use of form seems to indicate that Paul's christology might be more "Gnostic" than is traditionally thought.

If Paul thought that Jesus was ontological God, why use "form"? If Paul thought that Jesus was really a man and really a servant, why does he use "form" instead of simply, plainly, saying that Jesus was in fact God, was in fact man, was in fact a servant - without resorting to the rather distancing term, "form"...? I don't have the answer.

[steveb1]

[Replying to steveb1]

it makes more sense to me that Jesus the man would empty himself so as to be filled with God. Question for me is, what is it that Jesus the man would empty himself of.

If we say God emptied himself, what did God emptying himself of, God? This couldn't be a complete emptying of God into the man Jesus.

It is only reasonable that Jesus created the empty space within himself making space for God to fill up. And in this way it follows any one of us can theoretically make space for God in us too.

It's a metaphor.

Jesus didn't have to literally make a hole in his body or mind in order to "fill" it with something else.


JW

Yes, that is one of the issues I hoped my post would suggest. Is Jesus's kenosis a literal "psychological" event in Jesus or the Deity, or is it a metaphor for unconditional love...?

[steveb1]

[Replying to steveb1]

it makes more sense to me that Jesus the man would empty himself so as to be filled with God. Question for me is, what is it that Jesus the man would empty himself of.

If we say God emptied himself, what did God emptying himself of, God? This couldn't be a complete emptying of God into the man Jesus.

It is only reasonable that Jesus created the empty space within himself making space for God to fill up. And in this way it follows any one of us can theoretically make space for God in us too.

Excellent and thoughtful contribution - thank you. Yes, Jesus imagined us being united with the Father, one with the Father, "even as You and I are one", and 2 Peter says that we are to become partakers of the divine nature. Which implies some kind of self-emptying.

[dio9]

[Replying to post 12 by steveb1]

Some of these places where Jesus emptied himself begins with his baptism was a baptism of repentance which is all about emptying oneself , teaching disciples to serve , emptying themselves of their desire to be served , to lose your life in order to gain your life . Its more blessed to give than receive , and the story of the rich man and all rich men to empty themselves of their riches .
Jesus' prayer in the garden is emptying of his feelings before the arrest, and finally his emptying of life itself on the cross and the unjust suffering done to him by the Romans , for surly they didn't know what they were doing. In reading the Gospel through this hermetic eyeglass Jesus' teaching is about emptiness.