Does the Law provoke sin?

[Elijah John]

Does the Law provoke sinful behavior? Is it's purpose only to demonstrate that we need a savior because the Law is supposedly impossible to keep?

How many laws existed in the Garden of Eden?

Was it the Law that provoked Cain to kill Abel?

Wasn't murder wrong even before the commandment forbiding it was given from Sinai?

[showme]

Does the Law provoke sinful behavior? Is it's purpose only to demonstrate that we need a savior because the Law is supposedly impossible to keep?

How many laws existed in the Garden of Eden?

Was it the Law that provoked Cain to kill Abel?

Wasn't murder wrong even before the commandment forbiding it was given from Sinai?

New American Standard Bible 1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

[steveb1]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

No, the Law is sweetness, bliss and salvation. The notion that the Law was/is a burden originated with the anti-Judaic Saul of Tarsus. As Deuteronomy 30:11-15 says:


"11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?� 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?� 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.

15 See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. 16 For I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess."

[tam]

Peace to you EJ,

Does the Law provoke sinful behavior?

The law REVEALED sin. It was mean to act like a MIRROR; but too often Israel used it as a pointing finger, to judge others instead of showing mercy (which is what God desires: mercy, not sacrifice). Religions (at least the three "Abrahamic" ones) tend to teach their adherents to do some or even much of the same. Hence when some pharisees were pointing the finger at some of my Lord's disciples for various things, He told them to go and learn what it means that God desires mercy, not sacrifice. And He told those men who had prepared to stone the woman caught in adultery, "Let the one who is without sin cast the first stone."



The law was also meant to act like a tutor, leading to Christ.

How many laws existed in the Garden of Eden?

God's law, the one that is true from the beginning, is love. Adam and Eve violated that law - they showed no love for God; they showed no love for one another; and Adam in particular (since he was not deceived) showed no love toward his bride or to the world he had been given to govern, or to the life IN that world or to his offspring.

Had they shown love even after they sinned, well:

"Love covers over a multitude of sins."

But as it was, they could not be permitted to eat from the tree of Life and live forever, not as long as their actions would be against love, rather than from love.

Was it the Law that provoked Cain to kill Abel?

Jealousy provoked Cain to kill Abel.

Love moved Abel to cry out for mercy for his brother even after his murder. (the blood of your brother cries out to me from the ground)

Wasn't murder wrong even before the commandment forbiding it was given from Sinai?

Yes of course. Love does not murder. Love is the law written upon Abraham's heart; the law he would have taught his sons (Isaac and Ishmael).


Israel was given the written law after their time in Israel because the law was NOT written upon their hearts. (not that there are not exceptions of course) Their hearts were too hard. Stone tablets, it seems, were easier to write upon.


Ezekiel, speaking about what would come:


Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.





Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Overcomer]

Elijah John wrote:

Does the Law provoke sinful behavior?

Was it the Law that provoked Cain to kill Abel?

Does the current law of the land that says it is a punishable offence to murder somebody provoke you to go out and murder somebody? If so, why? If not, why not?

[ttruscott]

Peace to you EJ,

Does the Law provoke sinful behavior?

The law REVEALED sin.

Here's some supportive Bible verses:

Romans 7:7 What then shall we say? Is the Law sin? By no means! Indeed, I would not have been mindful of sin if not for the Law.

Romans 3:20 For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are.

The law does not make us aware of a sin we suddenly think we want to do, rather after we succumb to the desire and to sin, James 1:14 But each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. 15 Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is fully grown, it gives birth to death. then the law convicts us of our failure so we may repent.

[Elijah John]

Romans 3:20 For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are.

The verse you cite here Ted, is contradicted by Deuteronomy 30.15, the quote steveb1 provided in post #3.

So Paul is contradicting Moses and Jesus himself who said "if your would enter life, keep the commandments" and basically, the whole Jewish tradition, and the traditon of the apostles themselves.

If what Paul says in Romans 3.20 is true, why didn't Moses say this in the first place?

On the contrary, the Law is celebrated as life giving, and life affirming all through the Psalms, the Proverbs and basically the whole Tanakh!

Jesus only real beef with the law was that it should be embraced from the heart and not merely on a superficial, legalistic level. The Spirit of the Law was most important to Jesus, not just the letter.

Paul had a strange interpretation of the purpose of the Law, shared by no other Bible writer. (can you name any?)

[tam]

Correction to my post above sorry:

[Replying to post 4 by tam]

I wrote:

Israel was given the written law after their time in Israel


I meant to write that Israel was given the written law after their time in Egypt. Hopefully people understood that. Sorry.



Peace to you!

[liamconnor]

Does the Law provoke sinful behavior? Is it's purpose only to demonstrate that we need a savior because the Law is supposedly impossible to keep?

How many laws existed in the Garden of Eden?

Was it the Law that provoked Cain to kill Abel?

Wasn't murder wrong even before the commandment forbiding it was given from Sinai?

Does the Law provoke sinful behavior?

The question, I believe,, comes from Paul, who may very well be one of the top 10 most difficult writers of all time.

Law (or commandment) may very have an ironic effect; Augustine writes about how how his desire to steal pears from an orchard came not from his desire for pears, but rather from is desire to overcome a prohibition.

Again, children told "do not eat a cookie from this jar until we have had dinner" may very well peer into the jar, only because it was told not to.

Commandments impose limitations and we do not like limitations.


No, the Law (that is, the contract with Israel) did not provoke Eve, or Cain, sin; the Law had not been in place.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 7 by Elijah John]


If what Paul says in Romans 3.20 is true, why didn't Moses say this in the first place?

"On the contrary, the Law is celebrated as life giving, and life affirming all through the Psalms, the Proverbs and basically the whole Tanakh!"

Time moves on. Human mind develops. Many things ancients did would not dream of doing it today.
Moses was then. We are in the New Dispensation and the commandment is to
Love God and love they neighbor as yourself.

The Laws of God are like Constitution. A blueprint for orderly life and orderly universe where everything works in harmony. What man does can affect other life forms.
Many punishments in OT may not make sense to us but we don't know how did they infringe on 'order'.