Does Islam want to take over Britain

[Noachian]

This when you think about it (Britons mainly) is a relivant question to what we see in British society. Muslims seem to want Britain for themselves, some people are thinking that if Islam gets into the British goverment then thats the end of Christians in Bristain.

Is this true. What do you think expecially you muslims, Christian, Jews and maby a non-skeptical humanist (if there is such thing, just kidding).

[Keef]

Is it true that bishops are appointed by recomendation of the Prime Minister?

The show Yes, Prime Minister did a very enlighteneing analysis in the episode "The Bishop's Gambit".

Yes, Bishops are appointed by recommendation from the Prime Minister - but the Church "system" comes up with two names to pick from, and he's expected to pick the first on the list. Whether or not he always does, I don't know. I doubt the second candidate is exactly unsuitable, either.

Yes, Prime Minister did a brilliant job at spoofing the way Government doesn't work.

Yet all government functions are carried out in a specifically Anglican context. Could a Prime Minister be of such a faith that would be unable to perform obeisance to the Queen? And is the monarch, as Head of State, required to be Anglican?

England is (or, more to the point now, was) a Christian country, and the Anglican version is the primary version here.

I can't imagine the situation of a Prime Minister being nominated who would refuse to accept that the Queen is Head of State.

Yes, the Queen is Head of the Church of England and is indeed an Anglican. There are occasional debates about what would happen if the heir to the throne were a Catholic, but that's speculation and has never been an issue.

Religious officials, by virtue of their appointment as such, have seats in your upper house. A property you share with Iran, I believe.

It's not quite the same as the way it works in Iran! The process is just ever so slightly different!

[Dion]

All Members of Parliament are required to swear an oath or affirm allegiance to the Monarch before they are allowed to take their seats. Some who hold republican views do so with their fingers crossed, figuratively speaking. I doubt that any serious political party would choose as their leader anyone who felt unable to swear or affirm allegiance. Nonbelievers affirm, Christians use the Bible (Old and New Testament), Jews the Old Testament only, Muslims the Quran, etc. to swear.

There is no religious bar to anyone becoming Prime Minister. Disraeli was jewish and Michael Howard, lately leader of the Conservatives who lost the last election is also a jew. If the Conservatives had won we would even now have a jewish PM. I don't think that we have ever had a Roman Catholic PM but that is rather more for historical reasons than because RC's are barred. (Though they were at one time.)

As for the Monarch; there remains a specific bar on either the Monarch or their spouse being Roman Catholic but no specific bar on them belonging to any other faith or to none. This arose at the time of James II, the last avowedly Roman Catholic monarch who was deposed for that reason. At that that time I don't think it occurred to anyone that the monarch was likely to be anything other than one variety of Christian or another, hence there is no specific prohibition on the monarch being, say, a Muslim or a Hindu, etc.


p.s. McCulloch,

As anyone who lives in this part of the world knows, Glasgow is an independant soviet republic - or at least the city fathers often appear to think it is.

[Furrowed Brow]

Muslims seem to want Britain for themselves, some people are thinking that if Islam gets into the British goverment then thats the end of Christians in Bristain.

You're joking, right? I mean, the UK is an official theocracy. A christian one. It would not be legal, under the current constitution, for a non-anglican government to be formed.

And the current Big Issue over there seems to be whether muslim women can even wear veils.

Anyway, I think the UK government has the situation well in hand. When your Princess seemed likely to convert to islam, she was promtly "dealt with" by you secret service, right? No worries there.

DanZ

Hi Juliod

Britain does not have a written constitution. Well not written down in one place and in one book. We are bound by a mess of statutes, laws and traditions going back centuries.

The Queen is head of state and defender of the the faith, viz., the church of England and Christianity. However Prince Charles recently mooted the view that when it was his turn he wished to be crowned defender of faiths - plural. This was a deliberate attempt to be inclusive of all faiths. To which he was quickly told by constitutional experts that this was not possible.

In the UK no major political party is explicitly religious. The labour party in particular being a socialist party. In principle you could have a party made up from all Christians, Atheists or Muslims as long as they could get the votes; and there is nothing to stop a party calling itself a Christian party, Atheist party or Muslim Party save political expedience.

However every member of parliament has a duty to represent all there constituents equally. Also every member of parliament as to take an oath to the Queen. And if the Queen is the defender of the faith, then that is what they are swearing an oath to. However one anti monarchist would famously cross his fingers when taking the oath. So any party wishing to change the constitution would meet severe hurdles, and they could not say they crossed their fingers.

In the Uk the church of England is going through a steady and systematic decline. It has lost general moral authority and is now little more than a cipher. Something like 20% of the population attend church regularly (and declining) compared to a figure of near 70% in the US. (This figure is taken from memory. If anyone has the up to date correct statistic then please correct me).

The faster growing religion is Islam. This is mainly due to immigration and a higher birth rate in Muslim communities.

There have been calls from senior members of the Muslim community for Sharia law to apply to Muslim households. This idea has so far been rebuffed.

On the whole I find muslims I meet want to be part of the community, are law abiding, and have a sense of humour. However some do take their religion way more seriously than that which suites the traditional British liberal empirical temperament.

[Antigone]

OK, I am probably going to make a lot of enemies now, but I have to say this. I find it very ironic that the country who in the past invaded Ireland (and STILL hasn't 'given part of it back'), who made her empire so that the sun never sets on it, who invaded more countries than I can name, who promised palestinians they would get to rule themselves, then turned around and promised the land to European Jewish people, who went to other Muslim countries and bluh bluh bluh....I find it sooo ironic that now we have someone afraid that muslims (or any group of people for that matter) are going to 'take over Britian.'

I just want to know why you think muslims are "going to take over Britain" (sorry, I cannot, as an Irish person who wants Britain to give control of Ireland BACK to the Irish, call it the U .... K).

And Topaz, I just have to say this to you, your comment "It is clear to me after 9/11 that Islam wants to take over the world through terrorism" offended me and I'm not even Muslim. 9/11 was carried out by a terrorist organization who happened to be muslim this time. When a Christian blows up a gay and lesbian bar I do not say, "Christianity wants all us lesbians dead." When a Christian group goes to the funerals of our soldiers or a funeral for a gay person and yells, "Praise God, one more dead soldier" and "Fags go to hell." I do not think to myself, "Jeeez, all Christians are A***oles." How would you like to be linked to people like that??? How would you like to be judged because of someone elses actions in the name of God??? People of all religions have carried out terror attacks, remember that. There are also many good people who are in every religion.
Two people I love a lot died in tower 2, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do NOT hate and judge and continue the cycle of this twisted thing we have going on between "us and them." ... NOT in my loved ones names.... It is an insult to me and my family when 9/11 is brought up as a reason to hate, mistrust, or exclude a whole group of people. Save those feelings for the real terrorists: al quaeda.

[Antigone]

I almost forgot, I think everyone, especially Topaz, should read this book called "Arab Voices Speak to American Hearts" by Samar Dahmash-Jarrah. An American Journalist and teacher Interviewed 12 everyday, ordinary Arabs from all over the Arab world, some who are Christian, and asked them questions that everyday, ordinary Americans gave her to ask them. She then put together this book. The Arabs in the book also gave a list of questions for us Americans. I think anyone in the Western world could appreciate it, so those in Britian might want to get it too, or atleast look into it.
A very worth while book, eye opening too ... though I do not agree with some things that were said...

[McCulloch]

Sorry, I cannot, as an Irish person who wants Britain to give control of Ireland BACK to the Irish, call it the U .... K).

Even without recognizing England's claim on Ireland one can still call it a United Kingdom:

• The union between England and Wales, begun in 1284 with the Statute of Rhuddlan, was not formalized until 1536 with an Act of Union;
• in another Act of Union in 1707, England and Scotland agreed to permanently join as Great Britain;
• the legislative union of Great Britain and Ireland was implemented in 1801, with the adoption of the name the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland; changed to United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in 1927.

[Antigone]

Sorry I went crazy last night. I could have put my views in a more constructive way. What I said could have (and probably did) put a wedge between me and a few people on this board, especially those who are British. I do apologize for not putting my words down better.

I hope it isn't held against me for the rest of my time here on this board. In the future I promise to put my words down in a friendlier manner, even if its a topic I feel strongly about, like topics regarding Ireland and muslim/arab/middle east conflict stuff.

[palmera]

Regarding the original question: "Does Islam want to take over Britain?" This question is meaningless. How do you understand Islam? Now, I don't mean that the emotive qualities present in the prompt are silly or misguided, but that the question itself has no meaning. It's too vague. To which followers of Islam do you refer? Do you imagine that those using terrorist tactics are local Muslims, a separate Islamic State, or a group you imagine organized enough to topple one of the G8 nations? Perhaps you refer to a more ideological takeover... I'm not really sure.