What is a soul?

[scorpia]

Just as the title says; What is a soul, exactly? Is is meant to be different from your body, as well as different from your mind Eg. You may lose your memories but you will still have your soul. Yet it seems like teh mind and soul have a lot in common. So what would be the difference? Is there any difference, other than a soul being eternal while the mind is not?

[Confused]

Our definitions of a soul are very different. I understand what you define as one, but does the soul encompass all these things, or do some souls have a few of the components and some have a few of the others, etc.... Because if one must posseess all the components you have listed, then yes even a sociopath or autistic child can meet the criteria, but not all sociopaths or autistic children must meet the criteria. Am I interpreting this correct?

I am not suggesting that each of these 'components' be extant for a soul to exist, nor at a certain level of compliance. If we are alive, we have no choice but for the soul, as I see it, to exist.

I don't understand. Are you saying we are alive because of a soul or we have a soul because we are alive? I know our definitions of a soul differ, but I don't see a soul as a requirement for life in either way we conceptualize the soul.

[bernee51]

I don't understand. Are you saying we are alive because of a soul or we have a soul because we are alive? I know our definitions of a soul differ, but I don't see a soul as a requirement for life in either way we conceptualize the soul.

The soul is a product of our existence. It develops from birth and dissipates when we die.

[Confused]

I don't understand. Are you saying we are alive because of a soul or we have a soul because we are alive? I know our definitions of a soul differ, but I don't see a soul as a requirement for life in either way we conceptualize the soul.

The soul is a product of our existence. It develops from birth and dissipates when we die.

I agree partiallly. I think the soul is a composition of innate knowledge combined with our experiences throughout life. But it is a concept. Just as a personality is a concept. I find nothing "spiritual" about the concept of a soul. As much as I have tried, I just can't.

[bernee51]

I agree partiallly. I think the soul is a composition of innate knowledge combined with our experiences throughout life. But it is a concept. Just as a personality is a concept. I find nothing "spiritual" about the concept of a soul. As much as I have tried, I just can't.

We have a habit to taking a ‘flatland’ view of concepts such as the soul i.e. looking at it from a single perspective and trying to define it as a discrete object. In truth, if it exists, while being a whole object in itself it is also part of a whole. It is what Koestler ( in The Ghost in the Machine) described as a ‘holon’ – a whole/part. An analogy might be this very paragraph. It is made up of sentences, which are made up of words, which are made up of letters; each is a discrete entity in itself but also part of the paragraph.

Our species can be similarly defined. We are made up of atoms and molecules - the physiosphere, we have biochemical structures and functions - the biosphere, we also have a mind – the noosphere and so on. Each ‘level’ does not replace the one below but rather includes and transcends. Each new level adds functionality to the level below. (Coincidentally, (or not) it seems to be the way evolution works.) The soul, as I see it, is a ‘level’ which is the product of, and inclusive of, the ‘levels’ which go to make it up. And, clearly, there is interaction between these levels. For example, ‘afflictions’ of the soul can effect the functioning of the biosphere and visa versa.

As for the 'spiritual' and the soul. It depends on the definition of 'spiritual' doesn't it?

[Confused]

Bernee:

As for the 'spiritual' and the soul. It depends on the definition of 'spiritual' doesn't it?

Yes it does.

On some level, I can understand you logic and what you are trying to get across. But I can't say I truly understand. Your explaination of the words, sentences, and paragraphs etc.... is consistent with my concept in that a soul may be innate influences and external influences and that each component serves to make up the whole. It is what I consider the personality. It is as close to the concept of a soul as I can imagine right now. But as I learn more, I am expanding my thought process and maybe one day I can understand your transcending approach. But for now, I can only see it in narrow-flat land view.

[Cathar1950]

I don't understand. Are you saying we are alive because of a soul or we have a soul because we are alive? I know our definitions of a soul differ, but I don't see a soul as a requirement for life in either way we conceptualize the soul.

The soul is a product of our existence. It develops from birth and dissipates when we die.

That is what I was trying to get at when I was referring to the Hebrew concept. It was the whole human in their being and becoming which would include the past.
The concept of the soul like spiritual is an abstraction referring to the whole being, fed by the wind,breath or spirit as a living being. When it is gone it is gone except the mark it made or the memories. I include the memory of God's or the universe. But I see the concept of God as contingent. For me God would be the sum total of all contingencies including our own always surpassing itself in time and further contingencies. Of course this is all conceptual. I don't know how we could speak of anything outside of our experiences and relationships to the universe.
Maybe if I had a few classes of wine I could explain it better.
But I am agreeing with Confused and Bernie. God only know what happens after we are no longer a living soul but that should not prevent us from dreaming.
I am reminded of the movie "heaven can wait". It is a modern myth, or tale of life after death. That's entertainment.

[Confused]

I actually saw "Heaven can wait". Good movie. Funny.

I just don't see the concept of a soul outside of the body per se. I can't visualize or conceptualize what it would be. I can only apply it to what I know. And the best I can see is your personality represents your soul. If your are a mean person, your soul is black. A nice one, it is white. But it is a makeup of innate influences and external influences. Just as the personality is.

[methylatedghosts]

A soul entails all thought, intellect, emotions, memories, hopes, dreams, aspirations, suffering, loves, joys, hates, sorrows, regrets, creativity, spite, knowledge, learning, understanding, empathy, sympathy, pity, greed, lust, desire, initiative, and instinct of each and every human. More so, of every organism that has mental faculty.

I can almost agree with all of this. But I'll revise it for my definition.

A soul entails all experiences (see: bernee's long list + more) of the person associated with it. Like a memory. But also the experiences of the people it already has been associated with (past lives). I don't know about every organism with mental faculty (if by that you mean animals)

God is the sum total of ALL souls.

So, almost the same as bernee's definition, just different

Given this natural definition of a soul, what can we say about a soul? For one, it is mortal. It exists while we exist, and when we die it perishes. It is ephemeral. For another, it is in constant flux. Always growing, changing, learning, and adapting; until the day it dies.

Here I disagree. The soul is eternal, as it is a part of God, and covers many life spans. I agree that it is constantly changing, growing, learning, etc.

[McCulloch]

Here I disagree. The soul is eternal, as it is a part of God, and covers many life spans. I agree that it is constantly changing, growing, learning, etc.

Since this is a debate, is there any more evidence in your version of soul than there is for the more orthodox Christian one?

[bernee51]

A soul entails all thought, intellect, emotions, memories, hopes, dreams, aspirations, suffering, loves, joys, hates, sorrows, regrets, creativity, spite, knowledge, learning, understanding, empathy, sympathy, pity, greed, lust, desire, initiative, and instinct of each and every human. More so, of every organism that has mental faculty.

I can almost agree with all of this. But I'll revise it for my definition.

A soul entails all experiences (see: bernee's long list + more) of the person associated with it. Like a memory. But also the experiences of the people it already has been associated with (past lives). I don't know about every organism with mental faculty (if by that you mean animals)

God is the sum total of ALL souls.

So, almost the same as bernee's definition, just different

Given this natural definition of a soul, what can we say about a soul? For one, it is mortal. It exists while we exist, and when we die it perishes. It is ephemeral. For another, it is in constant flux. Always growing, changing, learning, and adapting; until the day it dies.

Here I disagree. The soul is eternal, as it is a part of God, and covers many life spans. I agree that it is constantly changing, growing, learning, etc.

Some animals certainly fit the bill as far as my definition is concerned. Any animal that displays any of the characteristics has a soul.

As this version of the soul is specific to the organism, how can it be immortal. Where does it reside after the organism dies?

Rhetorical question..I know what you will say...god. It appears your god is filling a gap in your lack of knowledge.

There is no reason that i can think of for the soul (as I undestand it) to be immortal.