JW organization.

[Elijah John]

Jehovah's Witnesses are not allowed to:

-vote
-celebrate birthdays
-celebrate Christmas or Easter
-donate or receive blood transfusions.

And if any JW openly persists in doing these things[edit to add publicly], they will be shunned or disfellowshipped, [edit to add or otherwise admonished or disciplined.]

For debate,

1) what do any of these check-list prohibitions have to do with Christianity?

2) And are any of these prohibitions compatible with the idea of Christian freedom?

3) Are these prohibitions arbitrary or legalistic?

4) And could Jehvoah's Witness as an organization flourish without these particular prohibitions and still honor God?

Please address any or all of the above.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 120 by onewithhim]

Was Paul not aware of Lazarus?

John 11:13-15New International Version (NIV)

13 Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep.

14 So then he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead, 15 and for your sake I am glad I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.�

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 89 by polonius.advice]

I don't think that Jehovah'sWitness was saying that the size of an organization reflects its accuracy in doctrine and teachings. Jesus said that "FEW would be on the narrow road to life." (Matt.7:14).

Indeed I didn't at any time imply we were anywhere near the biggest religion nor do we aspire to be, I only said that we attribute our increase to Jehovah's blessing and that we continue to increase despite everyone knowing that JWs don't celebrate birthdays.

It evidently isn't broke so we see no reason to "fix" it.


JW

Declaring something as "bad", "off-limits" or "forbidden" is fine. Every club is entitled to it's own rules and parameters.

But to come out against harmless things needlessly because "God said so" (when He didn't) is legalistic. And yes, "legalistic" is a pejorative term in the Christian lexicon.

Forbidding harmless things infringes on Christian liberty, and THAT is against both the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of Paul.

So though your organization may be somewhat thriving, bear in mind that it is in spite of these prohibitions, not because of them.

One wonders just how many people the JW organization may have driven away because of them.

No, God doesn't forbid the celebration of birthdays or blood transfusions. Neither you nor your group has demonstrated that He does.

[polonius]

[[url=http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 945#840945]



JW posted

Indeed I didn't at any time imply we were anywhere near the biggest religion nor do we aspire to be, I only said that we attribute our increase to Jehovah's blessing and that we continue to increase despite everyone knowing that JWs don't celebrate birthdays.

RESPONSE: But the small increase in JW membership is decreasing, not increasing as I reported in a previous message. Can we attribute that to Jehovah withdrawing his blessing?

[polonius]

JW post #25 “Anything is possible, except for God to be wrong or his word to prove untrue. That there no God is impossible. That God's word will ever prove to be untrue under any circumstance whatsoever, is absolutely impossible. That Jehovah's Witnesses understanding of that word might be wrong, yes, that is of course possible. –

JW post #32 “CONCLUSION: The contents of the bible, its historical and scientific accuracy, its prophetic detail, as well as the practical benefits millions have drawn from applying its principles, convinces many that it is not just an exceptional book but, is what it claims to be, "the word of God".

JW post #63 My opinion is that is accurate factual information. We do indeed believe the entire bible to be God's Inspired word, yes.

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... estaments/

“Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that the entire Bible is “inspired of God and beneficial.� (2 Timothy 3:16) That includes both the Old Testament and the New Testament, as they are commonly called. Generally, Jehovah’s Witnesses refer to these sections of the Bible as the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures. In this way, we avoid giving the impression that some parts of the Bible are outdated or irrelevant.�

But now we are told that:

JW posted:
Quote:

There is a difference between something being "inspired" and something being without error. Jehovah inspired men to write down certain thoughts, but they used their own words and their own methods of writing. He didn't dictate every single word.

RESPONSE: So do you now admit divine error or you are saying that God didn't really inspire all scripture.

The "divinely inspired Bible" may, in fact, contain errors.In short, God produced a partially defective writing.

So who can determine what is true and what is false? But in the case of contradiction, obviously, both versions can’t be true. At least one version has to be in error (sometimes both).

So Jehovah Witnesses are incorrect if they claim the truth of the statement that “Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that the entire Bible is “inspired of God and beneficial.� (2 Timothy 3:16)

So much for Bible thumping to prove one's views!

[polonius]

[Replying to post 85 by JehovahsWitness]

Yes, but you didn't report the down side. The Pew Foundation found the Society represents the lowest overall level of education and the lowest overall average income of any religious denomination in the US. That's only to be expected, given the Society's long history of anti-intellectual ravings demonizing higher education.

RESPONSE: However, that may not be meaningful.

For example, in very recent years there have been a large number of defections from the Catholic Church among educated and relatively wealthy peoples. A recent PEW report claims that in the United States for every Catholic gain, there are seven losses.

It's interesting to note that in Germany and perhaps France very many have defected from the Catholic Church. And these countries have on average high education levels and incomes.

Polonius

[JehovahsWitness]

God doesn't forbid [...] blood transfusions. Neither you nor your group has demonstrated that He does.

#QUESTION: Is a prohibition on blood transfusions based on the bible?

ACTS 15:29
"that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.�


Various other translations:
http://biblehub.com/acts/15-29.htm

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 120 by onewithhim]

Was Paul not aware of Lazarus?

John 11:13-15New International Version (NIV)

13 Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep.

14 So then he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead, 15 and for your sake I am glad I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.�

Postroad, at the time of his resurrection Lazarus was not one of the anointed chosen co-rulers that Christ would have ruling with him during his Millennial Reign. He raised Lazarus back to a PHYSICAL state.....to demonstrate what he would do for all of mankind in Paradise on Earth. Lazarus died again later on.

You didn't answer me about Jesus being the first-fruits of those who were chosen to rule.

.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 89 by polonius.advice]

I don't think that Jehovah'sWitness was saying that the size of an organization reflects its accuracy in doctrine and teachings. Jesus said that "FEW would be on the narrow road to life." (Matt.7:14).

Indeed I didn't at any time imply we were anywhere near the biggest religion nor do we aspire to be, I only said that we attribute our increase to Jehovah's blessing and that we continue to increase despite everyone knowing that JWs don't celebrate birthdays.

It evidently isn't broke so we see no reason to "fix" it.


JW

Declaring something as "bad", "off-limits" or "forbidden" is fine. Every club is entitled to it's own rules and parameters.

But to come out against harmless things needlessly because "God said so" (when He didn't) is legalistic. And yes, "legalistic" is a pejorative term in the Christian lexicon.

Forbidding harmless things infringes on Christian liberty, and THAT is against both the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of Paul.

So though your organization may be somewhat thriving, bear in mind that it is in spite of these prohibitions, not because of them.

One wonders just how many people the JW organization may have driven away because of them.

No, God doesn't forbid the celebration of birthdays or blood transfusions. Neither you nor your group has demonstrated that He does.

Did you bother to read my posts #61 and #64 which were direct responses to your OP? If you did reply to them I apologize, but I missed it. Could you please comment on my posts or tell me the number of the post where you did reply?


.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 127 by onewithhim] Well problem solved. The Saints who appeared unto many must have simply died again because they were not the anointed.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 127 by onewithhim] Well problem solved. The Saints who appeared unto many must have simply died again because they were not the anointed.

Again, "the saints" were the dead bodies of "saints" that were thrown up out of the ground or out of their tombs. I have difficulty with the term "saints," because nowhere else in the bible is anyone called a "saint" until after Jesus died and was resurrected. I don't know how Matthew could have been so lax in his understanding. I tend to blame the laxness on whoever is translating the verses.


.