JW organization.

[Elijah John]

Jehovah's Witnesses are not allowed to:

-vote
-celebrate birthdays
-celebrate Christmas or Easter
-donate or receive blood transfusions.

And if any JW openly persists in doing these things[edit to add publicly], they will be shunned or disfellowshipped, [edit to add or otherwise admonished or disciplined.]

For debate,

1) what do any of these check-list prohibitions have to do with Christianity?

2) And are any of these prohibitions compatible with the idea of Christian freedom?

3) Are these prohibitions arbitrary or legalistic?

4) And could Jehvoah's Witness as an organization flourish without these particular prohibitions and still honor God?

Please address any or all of the above.

[polonius]

4) Could the JW organization flourish without these prohibitions, and still honor God? Answer: It could flourish like the mega-churches that are so popular, raking in people's money by the billions and not giving them a speck of real spiritual food, but the WT organization would not then be honoring God.

Good point. Also the traditional churches that in America and Canada for example, for the most part are losing members whereas Jehovah's Witnesses remain the fastest growing Christian group in those countries. Increasing in number isn't the ONLY evidence of God's blessing, indeed even if we were to lose members over this issue it wouldn't mean God has left us, but we do believe that our continued increase is due to God and if we have His blessings we are happy.

RESPONSE: I find two different counterpoints to your claim. Someone has already listed one.

First of all, I believe that it is the number of unchurched that is most rapidly growing.

Secondly, if Church A has 10 members and adds 1, it can then claim a 10% increase in membership. If Church B has 100000 members and adds 1000 it can only claim a 1% growth. Which actually has the greatest increase?

What you really need to compare is the total number of JW members and what number have been added in, say, the last year. And then the total number of other denominations and what number has been added in the last year.

[polonius]

Matthew 2: 16 When Herod realized that he had been deceived by the magi, he became furious. He ordered the massacre of all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had ascertained from the magi.17Then was fulfilled what had been said through Jeremiah the prophet:
18* “A voice was heard in Ramah, sobbing and loud lamentation; Rachel weeping for her children, and she would not be consoled, since they were no more.�

Once again we have an “inspired’ but false prophecy fulfillment.

Jeremiah 31 portrays Rachel, wife of the patriarch Jacob, weeping for her children taken into exile at the time of the Assyrian invasion of the northern kingdom (722–21 B.C.). So this dealt with an event 700 years earlier than the birth of Jesus.

It has also been calculated that in 1 AD there were only about 300 people living in Bethlehem, so the number of males under 2 years killed could only have been 3 to 6 infants. On the other hand, aside from Matthew's claim, there is not other record of such a claimed massacre, not in Luke's Nativity Narrative, or Josephus' History of the Jewish People.

Still, there are those who argue that we must consider the Bible to be the revealed word of God. If true, then we can document that God makes many mistakes.

Shall I continue? Right now I'm only dealing with Matthew's story.

[JehovahsWitness]

RESPONSE: I find two different counterpoints to you claim. Someone has already listed one.

Okay, and what would that be or am I supposed to read your mind?

First of all, I believe that it is the number of unchurched that is most rapidly growing..

I was referring to organized religions as the context of the discussion implied.

Secondly, if Church A has 10 members and adds 1, it can then claim a 10% increase in membership.

Yes I should have been more specific, Jehovah's Witnesses have experienced the greatest percentage increase in comparison to other organized Christian religions. Apparently the National Council of Churches has done the same so it is, one must presume an acceptable method of comparison.

[polonius]

RESPONSE: I find two different counterpoints to you claim. Someone has already listed one.

Okay, and what would that be or am I supposed to read your mind?

First of all, I believe that it is the number of unchurched that is most rapidly growing..

I was referring to organized religions as the context of the discussion implied.

Secondly, if Church A has 10 members and adds 1, it can then claim a 10% increase in membership.

Yes I should have been more specific, Jehovah's Witnesses have experienced the greatest percentage increase in comparison to other organized Christian religions. Apparently the National Council of Churches has done the same so it is, one must presume an acceptable method of comparison.

RESPONSE:

Then please post the "apparently"? National Council of Churches results.

[JehovahsWitness]

Then please post the "apparently"? National Council of Churches results.

The Yearbook of American and Canadian Churches statistics[/b] listed the Jehovah's Witnesses as the fastest growing Christian religion in the US for 4 years in a row (the 2008-2011 Yearbooks). The 2011 Yearbook reported a 4.37% growth rate (based on 2010 membership figures).

"When adding all percentage figures in the last 4 years, the fastest growing Christian church is the Jehovah's Witnesses with a 10.37% growth rate increase, and the Assemblies of God falls in 2nd place with a 6.74% increase. Most of the other major churches, especially mainline Protestant churches, have consistiently reported decreases in the last 4 years ... Jehovah's Witnesses experienced the greatest growth percentage overall, gaining 4.37 percent according to [the 2011 Yearbook of American & Canadian Churches]"{End Quote} Source: Huffington Post
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/1 ... 23701.html

(the numbers are caluclated by the percentate of their total)

Jehovah's Witnesses 4.37
Seventh-Day Adventist Church 4.31
LDS Mormon Church 1.42
Catholic Church, 0.57
Assemblies of God 0.52
Church of God (Cleveland, Tenn.), 0.38

-- Source: National Council of Churches' 2011 Yearbook of American & Canadian Churches --



Source: http://www.christianpost.com/news/2011- ... ing-48984/

Jehovah's Witnesses experienced the greatest growth percentage overall, gaining 4.37 % according to the yearbook.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/rel ... 5_ST_N.htm

[polonius]

Let's look at some more current figures from the World Council of Churches.


http://www.ncccusa.org/news/120209yearbook2012.html
Membership trends in denominations reporting to the Yearbook remain stable, with growing churches still growing and declining churches still declining, reports the Rev. Dr. Eileen Lindner, the Yearbook's editor.

Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, Inc. 1,800,000, ranked 15 [ranked 17 in 2011], up 20 percent.

Jehovah’s Witnesses 1,184,249, ranked 20 [ranked 20 in 2011], up 1.85 percent.

The Catholic Church, the nation's largest at 68.2 million members, reported a membership decline of .44 percent.

[JehovahsWitness]

Let's look at some more current figures from the World Council of Churches.


http://www.ncccusa.org/news/120209yearbook2012.html
Membership trends in denominations reporting to the Yearbook remain stable, with growing churches still growing and declining churches still declining, reports the Rev. Dr. Eileen Lindner, the Yearbook's editor.

Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, Inc. 1,800,000, ranked 15 [ranked 17 in 2011], up 20 percent.

Jehovah’s Witnesses 1,184,249, ranked 20 [ranked 20 in 2011], up 1.85 percent.

The Catholic Church, the nation's largest at 68.2 million members, reported a membership decline of .44 percent.

Okay thank you for the information, I didn't have the 2012 figures.

JW

[onewithhim]

Let's get back to Elijah John's original post dealing with the JW Organization (in general).

Is this statement accurate?

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... estaments/

“…Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that the entire Bible is “inspired of God and beneficial.� (2 Timothy 3:16) That includes both the Old Testament and the New Testament, as they are commonly called. Generally, Jehovah’s Witnesses refer to these sections of the Bible as the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures. In this way, we avoid giving the impression that some parts of the Bible are outdated or irrelevant.�

Opinions?

My opinion is that is accurate factual information. We do indeed believe the entire bible to be God's Inspired word, yes.

JW

RESPONSE: I find I have difficulty with this type of answer. How can "God's inspired word" contain errors and contradictions unless God himself is untruthful?

Or

Conversely, how can a writing containing contradictions and errors claim divine authorship?

There is a difference between something being "inspired" and something being without error. Jehovah inspired men to write down certain thoughts, but they used their own words and their own methods of writing. He didn't dictate every single word.

.

[polonius]

So ranked 20th in size in 2011 the Jehovah Witnesses reported a 4.37 gain in membership.

In 2012 Jehovah’s Witnesses 1,184,249, ranked 20 [ranked 20 in 2011], up 1.85 percent. The increase in membership dropped by more than half.

On the other hand a similar small denomination; Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, Inc. 1,800,000, ranked 15 [ranked 17 in 2011], up 20 percent.

The Catholic Church, the nation's largest at 68.2 million members, reported a membership decline of .44 percent. The Catholic Church in the United States now with 69.5 million members, it is the largest religious body in the United States, comprising 22% of the population of 2015.

Are you trying to argue membership or membership increases determines the accuracy of the doctrine of a denomination?

(If so, note that the Catholic Church in the US is about 57 times larger than Jehovah’s Witnesses. Worldwide, it accounts for about 50% of the Christian population).

If not, what is the relevance of your membership claim?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]



[center]JW facts about JW rules[/center]

I personally try NOT to make statements about the religion of other people when I are not fully in possession of the facts

What would happen to a person who voted, celebrated birthdays, celebrated Christmas and Easter and donated or received blood transfusions. And told every JW about it?

How strict are those "rules"?
Are there any repercussions for breaking them?