Do we choose God or does God choose us?

[Manu]

Just want to know some perspectives out there.

[Confused]

Just want to know some perspectives out there.

A question hotly debated. Since god knew what we would do before we were born, I would go out on a limb and say that he chose us. I say this because though the free will of a person may be intact by allowing us to choose the circumstances under which we will choose him, he still ultimately knows prior to creating us who will chose him, these are obviously the people he places that innate knowledge of his existence, that ethereal light of goodness they recognize that the rest of us seem to lack. So really, there isn't a choice, just an illusion of choice since there are those of us lacking the ability to form a relationship with him d/t his decision to void us of that innate knowledge. Does this make sense?

[melikio]

A question hotly debated. Since god knew what we would do before we were born, I would go out on a limb and say that he chose us. I say this because though the free will of a person may be intact by allowing us to choose the circumstances under which we will choose him, he still ultimately knows prior to creating us who will chose him, these are obviously the people he places that innate knowledge of his existence, that ethereal light of goodness they recognize that the rest of us seem to lack. So really, there isn't a choice, just an illusion of choice since there are those of us lacking the ability to form a relationship with him d/t his decision to void us of that innate knowledge. Does this make sense?

Very logical; and I agree overall (in a "Christian" sense). And since the answers any one or group of persons may give vary widely (and are "hotly debated", so to speak), I believe and adhere to the principle that mankind should concentrate upon ways/means to promote a more "open" approach to all religion in general.

For in a world, where in the hearts and minds of men there seems to be evidence for both sides of an argument, then it is sometimes more beneficial to seriously regard the effects of the debate itself, rather than an "absolute" answer, which few of none can absolutely prove to be THE truth.

It took me a major portion of my life to learn AND accept that while there are absolute truths, the HUMAN factor/s is what requires the most insight and attention. For if there truly IS a God who has reality or existence at His fingertips (and I "believe" He exists), then every person who ever has been born, lived and died knows what they would, should or could about Him; somehow.

I believe God has provided mankind with "clues", not the perfect answers which many imagine or rationalize. I see knowledgeable people, but no one with perfect knowledge; many who are flawed, yet loved (whether they are "worthy" or not, in many cases).

The clues concerning choice are around us and guide us, but there appear to be few to no "perfect" answers which any of us can claim.

-Mel-

[franknhonest]

People are spiritually dead (Eph 2). Without God's quickening, they cannot be saved. People do not choose God. God chooses them and draws them to himself.

[melikio]

People are spiritually dead (Eph 2). Without God's quickening, they cannot be saved. People do not choose God. God chooses them and draws them to himself.

You don't seem to be willing to accept that there is more "hope" in all of this than you tend to believe there is (at least for many others who interpret the SAME book you are referencing).

And even if what you say (and how you see it) is absolutely true, how is it made "real" to the average person who doesn't believe as you yourself do? How do you communicate that truth to others, rather than form biblical verses into emotional or social projectiles and THREATENING people with them? (Terrorists world-wide, would do better to heed or even consider the value of what I'm saying here.)

You have perhaps been "taught" to believe (raised to think as you do), believed by chance or decided to believe what you have said above.

And to say that people DO NOT choose God, is very debatable. After all, who really knows how God affects ONE or ALL (according to his providence)?

It's so easy and convenient to pull things from the Bible (or other religious writings), and sling them out there at people who either do not believe, or do not seem to meet your personal religious standards. That behavior doesn't really do anything good IMO; and just look at the world (today) because of it (religion and associated dark extremism); it's CRAP, really.

Love (1Cor13) is the key, and I hope many more people learn it in due time.

"Do we choose God or does God choose us?" is a MASSIVE question; really. It's an interesting question indeed, but I think that using the Bible and various interpretations of the same, will lead people to unique answers nevertheless.

-Mel-

[Confused]

People are spiritually dead (Eph 2). Without God's quickening, they cannot be saved. People do not choose God. God chooses them and draws them to himself.

You are frankly honest. So your intention is that until god recognizes a person, they have no spirit, or soul per se?? So based on your analysis, god decides who he reveals himself to therfore allowing them to be saved and the others he just rejects outright??? I am going out on a limb here and guessing you aren't any branch of popular religion. Your quote (while taken out of text) would lead one to believe that one is damned at birth unless god chooses to recognize you at some given point? Is this correct?

[OneJack]

Just want to know some perspectives out there.

We must choose God and place ourselves under the care and custody of God for God to accept us and give us salvation and eternal life. You cannot be saved by just doing nothing at all and waiting for God to accept you in spite of your being lazy and stubborn to call on and come unto God, it is now way with God for sure.

[Truth101]

Just want to know some perspectives out there.

We must choose God and place ourselves under the care and custody of God for God to accept us and give us salvation and eternal life. You cannot be saved by just doing nothing at all and waiting for God to accept you in spite of your being lazy and stubborn to call on and come unto God, it is now way with God for sure.

Your view is one which gives mans will more power than Gods will. You claim that Gods will is subjected to mans will insead of mans will being in subjection to Gods will. There is no shortage of scripture which states that mans will is weak and overpowered by the slight breath of Gods nostrils. We have no more power over wills than even Satan has power over our will. Gods will is the final will over all of His creation. We do have a will but, it is in no way free from outside causes.

Who is in charge of these things which cause our choises in the first place? GOD is.

Take Jonah for an example. He was tossed all over the place by events which God placed in His path in order to cause him to choose to do Gods will. Jonah was not free at all. In the end it was Gods will that was done and not Jonahs will.

Listen to the lords prayer "YOUR WILL BE DONE ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN".
There is no room for mans will to be free at all.

Heres just a few scriptures to take into consideration.

"No man may come to me except my Father draws him"
"it is not of yourselves, it is a gift, lest any man should boast"
"you do not choose me but I have chosen you" (not because of His forknowledge simply making provisions surrounding mans freewill choices. God is not there operating some damage control tower. He is in perfect control of all mans comings and goings.
"it is not in man wo walketh to direct his own steps."

There are many many many more to consider. Mans supposed freewill is void in scripture.

God bless, Dave

[Truth101]

People are spiritually dead (Eph 2). Without God's quickening, they cannot be saved. People do not choose God. God chooses them and draws them to himself.

You are frankly honest. So your intention is that until god recognizes a person, they have no spirit, or soul per se?? So based on your analysis, god decides who he reveals himself to therfore allowing them to be saved and the others he just rejects outright??? I am going out on a limb here and guessing you aren't any branch of popular religion. Your quote (while taken out of text) would lead one to believe that one is damned at birth unless god chooses to recognize you at some given point? Is this correct?

Yes God chooses whom He will chose and all others are simply not chosen out of His good pleasure. I wish I had more time today to get into this. I will leave you with a few thoughts.

God is the potter and has created vessels of honor and vessels of dishonor for His own purpose. Those that are created as vessels of honor are those whom He will reveal His grace mercy and love through. Those that are created vessels of dishonor are the ones He chooses to reveal His wrath judgment and power and Godhead through.

Your statement of being "damned" is in question. Your understanding is in subjection to your understanding of what being damned is. If you are refering to eternal torment in a literal fire than this is not a truth of scripture. The words "aion" and "aionios" in scripture should never have been translated as eternal or everlasting or evermore not to mention the carnal theory that this fire is literal.

Everything that was is and will be are all a part of Gods perfect plan of salvation. He will save all in the end. While some He has chosen to be vessels of honor will recieve the kingdom of heaven, others will not in the same sense. Those that are chosen to rule and reign with Christ recieve this not of anything they have done on their own. They recieve this by the grace of god alone.

If you wish to discuss this in more detail I am willing and I will promise to use scripture to make my claims.

God bless, Dave

[bernee51]

Yes God chooses whom He will chose and all others are simply not chosen out of His good pleasure. I wish I had more time today to get into this. I will leave you with a few thoughts.

So do you know if you are one of the chosen? if so, how so?

What about me? Do you know if I am one of god's chosen?

Those that are created vessels of dishonor are the ones He chooses to reveal His wrath judgment and power and Godhead through.

What is the 'godhead'?

He will save all in the end.

If all are saved what is the point of scriptural revelations?

God bless, Dave

God has blessed me with his absence.