Pat Buchanan curbstomps the bleeding hearts

[Paprika]

I love the smell of annihilation in the morning:

“Liberalism is the ideology of Western suicide,� wrote James Burnham in his 1964 “Suicide of the West.�

Burnham predicted that the mindless magnanimity of liberals, who subordinate the interests of their own people and nations to utopian and altruistic impulses, would bring about an end to Western civilization.

Was he wrong? Consider what is happening in Europe.

Angela Merkel will be taking in 800,000 this year alone, though the grumbling has begun in Bavaria.

This is but the beginning of what is to come, if Europe does not pull up the drawbridge.

For the scores of thousands of Syrians in the Balkans, Hungary, Austria and Germany are only the first wave. Behind them in Lebanon, Turkey and Jordan are 4 million refugees from the Syrian civil war. Seeing the success of the first wave, they are now on the move.

Behind them are 2 million Alawites and 2 million Christians who will be fleeing Syria when the Bashar Assad regime falls to ISIS and the al-Qaeda terrorists who already occupy half of that blood-soaked land.

Now the Iraqis, who live in a country the prospects for whose reunification and peace are receding, have begun to move. Also among the thousands pouring into Europe from Turkey are Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Afghans. When the Americans leave Afghanistan and the Taliban take their revenge, more Afghans will be fleeing west.

Africa has a billion people, a number that will double by 2050, and double again to 4 billion by 2100. Are those billions of Africans going to endure lives of poverty under ruthless, incompetent, corrupt and tyrannical regimes, if Europe’s door remains wide open?

What is coming is not difficult to predict.

Europe is going to run out of altruism long before it runs out of refugees.

Liberal Man almost alone excepted, every species of animal life reacts or recoils when another species intrudes upon its turf.

Thus, in the end, Burnham was probably right.

Liberalism is the ideology of Western suicide.

[Neatras]

Got a debate question in mind?

[Paprika]

Got a debate question in mind?

Sure. Is Liberalism "the ideology of Western suicide"?

[Neatras]

[Replying to post 3 by Paprika]

Since I'm not exactly eager to jump right into a loaded definition, I'd like to unpack this a bit. Would you like to explain what "Western suicide" entails, and what you feel the conditions that lead to, or the risks that follow "Western suicide"? There have been inflammatory claims about economic establishments in the past, and not all of them have ended up disastrously.

[Paprika]

[Replying to post 3 by Paprika]

Since I'm not exactly eager to jump right into a loaded definition, I'd like to unpack this a bit. Would you like to explain what "Western suicide" entails, and what you feel the conditions that lead to, or the risks that follow "Western suicide"? There have been inflammatory claims about economic establishments in the past, and not all of them have ended up disastrously.

Just when I've deleted the picture from my signature....here:

[Hamsaka]

[Replying to post 1 by Paprika]

From your link:

Who are we? Are we unique and separate peoples of a particular race and tribe, history and faith, language and culture, identifiable to all the world and worth preserving at the price of our lives?

Are we Germans, Russians, Poles, Italians, Spanish and French first?

Or are we simply Europeans, people who live on the world’s smallest continent and share a belief in the equality of all peoples and cultures, and in secularism and social democracy?

Liberal Man almost alone excepted, every species of animal life reacts or recoils when another species intrudes upon its turf.

The writer's use of the word 'species' is quite incorrect in this context, but it is revealing of the writer's personal assessment of the immigrants (as a 'different species'). Certainly the traditional human tendency is to sharply demarcate between 'us' and 'them'. I suspect if the writer had used a more correct term, such as 'race', a predictable can-o-worms opened would distract from his point.

My personal values align significantly with 'liberalism' though not perhaps with an anti-Liberalist's straw man version of 'liberalism'. Even so, I see no reason to defend a 'liberal' idea when it can be shown to be a bad idea. It is jumping the shark to shift blame to 'liberalism' this soon in the game. Here in the states, we have our own version of Europe's immigrant dilemma. It sure is tough, being a citizen of a country that the dispossessed and displaced regard as a haven of safety and thriving.

Without relying on cute, zippy polemics, give some supported and verifiable reasons that liberalism is the ideology of Western suicide. Stick your neck out a little and make a case for it in your own words.

[Paprika]

[Replying to post 1 by Paprika]

From your link:

Who are we? Are we unique and separate peoples of a particular race and tribe, history and faith, language and culture, identifiable to all the world and worth preserving at the price of our lives?

Are we Germans, Russians, Poles, Italians, Spanish and French first?

Or are we simply Europeans, people who live on the world’s smallest continent and share a belief in the equality of all peoples and cultures, and in secularism and social democracy?

Liberal Man almost alone excepted, every species of animal life reacts or recoils when another species intrudes upon its turf.

The writer's use of the word 'species' is quite incorrect in this context, but it is revealing of the writer's personal assessment of the immigrants (as a 'different species'). Certainly the traditional human tendency is to sharply demarcate between 'us' and 'them'. I suspect if the writer had used a more correct term, such as 'race', a predictable can-o-worms opened would distract from his point.

Or perhaps instead of being mere assessment he's trying to avoid the can-o-worms you mention.

My personal values align significantly with 'liberalism' though not perhaps with an anti-Liberalist's straw man version of 'liberalism'.

On the contrary, one important pillar of contemporary liberalism revolves around very open borders, so that is not a straw man version.

Without relying on cute, zippy polemics, give some supported and verifiable reasons that liberalism is the ideology of Western suicide. Stick your neck out a little and make a case for it in your own words.

By mass importing of immigrants (that will eventually outnumber the original Westerners) and refusing to force them to integrate, the Liberal culture will be wrecked and steadily replaced by the immigrants' will own cultures (eg. in certain areas sharia law is already de facto enforced by the immigrants). Like the American Indians, Westerners will be outnumbered, dominated, and forcibly converted, with their way of life being slowly destroyed.

Will this do?

[Hamsaka]

[Replying to post 1 by Paprika]

From your link:

Who are we? Are we unique and separate peoples of a particular race and tribe, history and faith, language and culture, identifiable to all the world and worth preserving at the price of our lives?

Are we Germans, Russians, Poles, Italians, Spanish and French first?

Or are we simply Europeans, people who live on the world’s smallest continent and share a belief in the equality of all peoples and cultures, and in secularism and social democracy?

Liberal Man almost alone excepted, every species of animal life reacts or recoils when another species intrudes upon its turf.

The writer's use of the word 'species' is quite incorrect in this context, but it is revealing of the writer's personal assessment of the immigrants (as a 'different species'). Certainly the traditional human tendency is to sharply demarcate between 'us' and 'them'. I suspect if the writer had used a more correct term, such as 'race', a predictable can-o-worms opened would distract from his point.

Or perhaps instead of being mere assessment he's trying to avoid the can-o-worms you mention.

I thought about that, too.

My personal values align significantly with 'liberalism' though not perhaps with an anti-Liberalist's straw man version of 'liberalism'.

On the contrary, one important pillar of contemporary liberalism revolves around very open borders, so that is not a straw man version.

True, and the idea of that doesn't instill fear in me while it probably should.

Without relying on cute, zippy polemics, give some supported and verifiable reasons that liberalism is the ideology of Western suicide. Stick your neck out a little and make a case for it in your own words.

By mass importing of immigrants (that will eventually outnumber the original Westerners) and refusing to force them to integrate, the Liberal culture will be wrecked and steadily replaced by the immigrants' will own cultures (eg. in certain areas sharia law is already de facto enforced by the immigrants). Like the American Indians, Westerners will be outnumbered, dominated, and forcibly converted, with their way of life being slowly destroyed.

Will this do?[/quote]

Oh . . . I don't know. Folks who believe they can predict what will happen -- on either 'side' of the issue -- may be way off. It is possible, and even probable in the extremes, that it's going to get called wrong. The negative consequences either way are considerable.

It's important to be wary of false dichotomies, because what lies outside the dichotomies gets overlooked. The leftie Liberals may envision singing Kumbaya arm in arm with every branch of the human tree, while conservatives boom out warnings of doom. The conservatives are just trying to preserve 'what works' and the liberals are just trying to include eeeeeeverybody in the (theoretical) abundance. Both sides need each other. The liberals in their starry eyed progressive wonder and the conservatives putting on the brakes is a reliable system so that we don't stagnate or bite off more than we can chew.

I 'side' more 'conservative' when the immigration rubber hits the road, but in true idealist style, I hope human beings, no matter how different, can learn to leave each other alone and live cooperatively without too much trouble (trouble is inescapable). Whatever it looks like for this to happen is beside the point.

I can't blame them for wanting better lives (ie not being hunted down by radicals, running water, regular food, education for the kids). I don't see the countries they flee from making any changes any time soon. I don't trust either side's propaganda. I also wouldn't mind sharing my property with a refuge family (I'm odd that way) and even helping them get set up.

[Paprika]

[Replying to post 8 by Hamsaka]
Quite. It is entirely possible that I and those who believe similarly as me are wrong.

But what is likely? There are many Muslims immigrants flooding in with no hint of any significant deterrence by governments at this point. We know that many of them will want to establish Sharia law. We know that the whites have embraced dyscivic worldviews and are declining in number, whereas the Muslims have high birth rates. So inevitably if the current trends continue the whites will be outnumbered. There is also the historical precedence such as how American Indians and other indigenous groups were dominated and reduced to insignificance, and those zones in Europe where sharia law is already de facto enforced.

Like you, I do hope that humanity will work for the good. Unfortunately, my expectations have to be realistic, as wishful thinking is not a indulgence that can be afforded.

[2Dbunk]

Paprika wrote-

“Liberalism is the ideology of Western suicide,� wrote James Burnham in his 1964 “Suicide of the West.�

Burnham predicted that the mindless magnanimity of liberals, who subordinate the interests of their own people and nations to utopian and altruistic impulses, would bring about an end to Western civilization.

Was he wrong?

Consider

what is happening in Europe.

Helping people: Isn't that the Christian way?