God's Attributes

[theleftone]

What is Gods power? Why is he called all-powerful or all-knowing or omni-present? Why does God have these attributes and where is he attributed them in the bible?

Cathar1950 asked about the attributes of God and where these ideas about God come from. I thought it'd be good to move such a discussion to a new thread in TDD.

Questions for debate.
1. What are the attributes of God?
2. Where are these ideas found in Scripture?
3. Where are these ideas found in doctrinal history? (Jewish/Christian)

[KnowJah]

I dont doubt God. I know what his purpose is and his will. Many people claim to have "talked to God", even pyschics and satanic people. I can tell who God directs. The bible shows it clearly that it was evident that the people God spoke to was true. I'm not going to believe some random person from the internet that says they talked to God.

Let me ask, what is your God's will?

[bernee51]

I know what his purpose is and his will. ]

You KNOW his purpose and his will? That implies you KNOW of his existence. On what evidence is this knowledge based? Biblical stories?

. I can tell who God directs.

Really? How?

The bible shows it clearly that it was evident that the people God spoke to was true.

How so?

[adlemi]

adlemi,

Please be cautious that with God, doubting God is a sin against God in the mega-superlative degree.

What exactly do you mean by "...doubting God..."?

Say when God speaks with you asking you a thing to do by yourself and you are hesitant to do it because you are in doubt that it is really God who is asking you to do it in spite of the truth that God did properly introduce himself to you.

Are you implying that people either cannot or should not "doubt" God?

By all means people may or may not doubt God. It depends on the kind of people.

[melikio]

...when God speaks with you asking you a thing to do by yourself and you are hesitant to do it because you are in doubt that it is really God who is asking you to do it in spite of the truth that God did properly introduce himself to you.

I understand.

Still, all things aren't clear and spelled-out for each individual person.

And sometimes what one believes as "truth" (even for decades), can ultimately be found false or senseless later in life. This almost always affects/shapes "faith"; sometimes building it up, other times causing a struggle or losing it altogether.

People are different, and that is a factor that we either accept (even as "Christians"), or we let it be a most MASSIVE stumbling block all of our lives.

-Mel-

[adlemi]

And sometimes what one believes as "truth" (even for decades), can ultimately be found false or senseless later in life. This almost always affects/shapes "faith"; sometimes building it up, other times causing a struggle or losing it altogether.

But all these things can be avoided by throwing away all our own wisdom and thinking and by having the Lord God Jesus Christ as our Good Pastor and Teacher in our whole life. What matters most is shall we or shall we not?

People are different, and that is a factor that we either accept (even as "Christians"), or we let it be a most MASSIVE stumbling block all of our lives.

Make the best choice in our life and it is only the Lord God who is the best One to come to.

[melikio]

But all these things can be avoided by throwing away all our own wisdom and thinking and by having the Lord God Jesus Christ as our Good Pastor and Teacher in our whole life. What matters most is shall we or shall we not?

Well, a person's individual approach to a relationship with God or a higher power (one considered greater than oneself), can only be debated so much.

A person's perceptions of faith, religion or their "God" can and will vary. Some will attain great faith in one God or a single religion, while others will be sincerely skeptical, perhaps for an entire lifetime.

I don't think we can paste right/wrong upon such "humaness"; and the God I know, understands and gives grace to humans. He knows they either cannot or do not believe the SAME things, nor do they understand all things. People will see God differently (even though He is or may be the same "God"), because people are not all the same. I've experienced enough religion, and people who are religious to know this intuitively.

So, as is indicated by the often fruitless disagreements and arguments of believers, unbelievers and anti-believers... we are ultimately left with a concept which essentially says:

"To each, his own."

And that is usually not a problem, unless someone concludes that others MUST adhere to one and the same "faith" or "philosophy". And discussions like this, are merely exercises which show us all where we differ and agree about such things.

Make the best choice in our life and it is only the Lord God who is the best One to come to.

All important choices are NOT clear and easy. The "best" choice may not actually be a choice, but an understanding that comes with time, expereince and true wisdom (a journey, or series of seemingly unrelated factors).

If it were ALL so clear, there would not be ex-believers, ex-unbelievers and sincere skeptics (who are often trying to the core of their being to make some "choice"). I think it is a miracle that people possess AND exercise "faith"; it doesn't comes to ALL in the same time or same way/s (as much as we would like to believe that it does), and the same applies to "truth". What is obvious to one, may not be to another; and in time, one can actually lose "understanding" (or faith) even as it is seemingly garnered by another.

Even so, faith, hope and love remain. And with each new day, I see the value and importance of LOVE over many other things. People will always agree and disagree, but LOVE can build bridges where there would otherwise be nothing to relate to. In Jesus Christ, I see LOVE as God's primary attribute; not that nothing else matters, but that is the manner in which God intends/desires to communicate with human beings. Perhaps some do have mountaintop and burning-bush experiences; but ALL DO NOT.

People are different, and so is the "faith" of each person (however nuanced that may be).

-Mel-

[adlemi]

But all these things can be avoided by throwing away all our own wisdom and thinking and by having the Lord God Jesus Christ as our Good Pastor and Teacher in our whole life. What matters most is shall we or shall we not?

Well, a person's individual approach to a relationship with God or a higher power (one considered greater than oneself), can only be debated so much.

A person's perceptions of faith, religion or their "God" can and will vary. Some will attain great faith in one God or a single religion, while others will be sincerely skeptical, perhaps for an entire lifetime.

I don't think we can paste right/wrong upon such "humaness"; and the God I know, understands and gives grace to humans. He knows they either cannot or do not believe the SAME things, nor do they understand all things. People will see God differently (even though He is or may be the same "God"), because people are not all the same. I've experienced enough religion, and people who are religious to know this intuitively.

So, as is indicated by the often fruitless disagreements and arguments of believers, unbelievers and anti-believers... we are ultimately left with a concept which essentially says:

"To each, his own."

And that is usually not a problem, unless someone concludes that others MUST adhere to one and the same "faith" or "philosophy". And discussions like this, are merely exercises which show us all where we differ and agree about such things.

Make the best choice in our life and it is only the Lord God who is the best One to come to.

All important choices are NOT clear and easy. The "best" choice may not actually be a choice, but an understanding that comes with time, expereince and true wisdom (a journey, or series of seemingly unrelated factors).

If it were ALL so clear, there would not be ex-believers, ex-unbelievers and sincere skeptics (who are often trying to the core of their being to make some "choice"). I think it is a miracle that people possess AND exercise "faith"; it doesn't comes to ALL in the same time or same way/s (as much as we would like to believe that it does), and the same applies to "truth". What is obvious to one, may not be to another; and in time, one can actually lose "understanding" (or faith) even as it is seemingly garnered by another.

Even so, faith, hope and love remain. And with each new day, I see the value and importance of LOVE over many other things. People will always agree and disagree, but LOVE can build bridges where there would otherwise be nothing to relate to. In Jesus Christ, I see LOVE as God's primary attribute; not that nothing else matters, but that is the manner in which God intends/desires to communicate with human beings. Perhaps some do have mountaintop and burning-bush experiences; but ALL DO NOT.

People are different, and so is the "faith" of each person (however nuanced that may be).

-Mel-

All I can say from experience is that God is still speaking and talking to the people today as in the biblical times and all that we people have to do is to call on to and come to God directly for God to speak literally with us, too. God bless you.

[melikio]

All I can say from experience is that God is still speaking and talking to the people today as in the biblical times and all that we people have to do is to call on to and come to God directly for God to speak literally with us, too. God bless you.

I know why some people can believe and say what you do (above), but I also understand (readily) that not all people are going to interpret thing in the same way/s, even if they do EXACTLY as people in "biblical times" had done. Even in those times, there were "religious" people who were as mean as "hell" (so to speak); in many accounts of Jesus' dealings with people, He made a special point of reminding human beings that they were far from perfect (as so many fundamentalist, right-wing conservative Christians today seem to exude by their overall character).

And one of the most difficult aspects of what you are claiming, is truly knowing who is just a self-consumed, egotistical nutcase, or someone who has actually heard from a being greater than themselves.

Honestly, the ONLY way I can tell who is real (or worth listening to), is by looking to see if they (consistently and reasonably) exude the characteristics of love (1Cor13) in what they say and do.

There is a strange and ruthless "conservative" (read oppressive) movement out here today, that has shown me that MANY understand "religion", but that few know GOOD religion.

So, while I really don't disagree with most of what you have shared in the most general sense, I am concerned that some people DO take themselves far more seriously than they should; thinking that God has not "spoken" to many others besides themselves (just because they believe they have gone through all the "right" motions... etc.). They believe that they are truly "greater" than others, because they have somehow EARNED a "higher" position. And worst of all, they would actually TREAT others (in God's name), AS IF they are THAT MUCH BETTER (or more worthy) than other human beings.

That is something I have seen in many people of different religions (certainly not just Christianity); and while I have a massively resilient and often child-like faith in God and some other things, I realize that some by virtue of being "religious" (and not particularly "loving"), cause their religion to be TOXIC to others, even if they DO claim great and amazing amounts of "faith". It's something to watch out for, and at times protect oneself against. At the very least, awareness of what I'm pointing out, provides a person with a clear choice to tolerate or forgive much of what they'll endure at the hand of the "relgious", or to directly petition their "God" for the grace to endure the cruelty, hurt, oppression and manipulation which some will certainly bring their way (in the name of "God").

-Mel-

[adlemi]

[quote"melikio"]4I am concerned that some people DO take themselves far more seriously than they should; thinking that God has not "spoken" to many others besides themselves (just because they believe they have gone through all the "right" motions... etc.).

No one can monopolize God nor can God be limited only to some others . We are not saying any of these for we believe God to the God of all and God can speak to anyone whom God wishes to without any reservation at all.

They believe that they are truly "greater" than others, because they have somehow EARNED a "higher" position.

God is very clear in His teaching to us that we are all at par with each other without any one of us above with our own fellow. Not even Moses is higher than you or me and so is Paul.

And worst of all, they would actually TREAT others (in God's name), AS IF they are THAT MUCH BETTER (or more worthy) than other human beings.

This is not true if you will place yourself under the direct custody of God himself.

That is something I have seen in many people of different religions (certainly not just Christianity); and while I have a massively resilient and often child-like faith in God and some other things, I realize that some by virtue of being "religious" (and not particularly "loving"), cause their religion to be TOXIC to others, even if they DO claim great and amazing amounts of "faith". It's something to watch out for, and at times protect oneself against. At the very least, awareness of what I'm pointing out, provides a person with a clear choice to tolerate or forgive much of what they'll endure at the hand of the "relgious", or to directly petition their "God" for the grace to endure the cruelty, hurt, oppression and manipulation which some will certainly bring their way (in the name of "God").

Totally put yourself under the custody and care of God himself and all your worries and apprehensions will be taken cared of by the Lord and they will just be a mere history in your life.

[melikio]

No one can monopolize God nor can God be limited only to some others .

If God exists (which I believe He does), then I would agree it is impossible to monopolize Him directly. However, for whatever reasons, God has certainly allowed that many "concepts" of Himself CAN indeed be invented, exploited and/or monopolized. I do not understand that, I just make sure to protect myself against that.

We are not saying any of these for we believe God to the God of all and God can speak to anyone whom God wishes to without any reservation at all.

Of course. BUT... there are ALWAYS those who will take their perceptions of God beyond what is "personal", and literally PUSH their "truth" upon other people. It's not new, it's not rare and it's not particularly difficult to recognize.

God is very clear in His teaching to us that we are all at par with each other without any one of us above with our own fellow. Not even Moses is higher than you or me and so is Paul.

This is NOT "clear" to all human beings; even MANY who embrace the Bible as their sacred or revered text. I generally agree that we are ALL equals as human beings, but many (even a large number of Bible-believers and other religious folks) DO NOT.

If the necessity of defending oneself from those who consider themselves superior and more worthy were insignificant, I wouldn't be addressing anything about it. In fact, it is surely one of the MAIN concerns I have with the manner in which religion is so often used. You can SAY that someone might have a direct connection to the heart/mind of God (I really can't debate that), but I can (and likely should) be poised to SCRUTINIZE the ideas, concepts and actions which are often claimed to originate from any such (alleged) "connection".

At a personal level, the idea that "GOD SAID" can be and likely is appropriate. But all too often, I have witnessed many who have claimed to pick up "godly" ideas and attitudes from "God", yet are as questionable as the status of shifting-sand. Love to me is like CASH MONEY (when it comes to godliness). And I can tell you or anyone else, that I wouldn't really trust a thing they SAY about God, if they somehow prove that "love" is NOT their mode and motive; I want little or nothing to do with them... a relationship with someone like that tends to be either draining or meaningless period.

Yes, I know/believe God can and does communicate directly with human hearts; but deciphering what's OF the human being and what is truly of The Creator, is NOT always simple and/or clear. I don't have to debate that within myself, but I realize that it is something that is debatable (as indicated by our exchanges).

And worst of all, they would actually TREAT others (in God's name), AS IF they are THAT MUCH BETTER (or more worthy) than other human beings.

This is not true if you will place yourself under the direct custody of God himself.

I call such custody "love"; I see very few compelling reasons beyond love (1Cor13) (and certain secular laws), to tolerate or endure much of that which we humans tend to throw at one another (by our very nature, even using the "Bible").

Totally put yourself under the custody and care of God himself and all your worries and apprehensions will be taken cared of by the Lord and they will just be a mere history in your life.

I see your point. Been there, done that... and STILL had to learn things beyond what you claim. I know at a spiritual level what you say has strong merit (to me at least), but I have to be realistic in this imperfect physical world. And sure, we have different approaches to "faith" (it seems), but I am virtually certain that God has a reason for allowing such differences to exist.

I know "faith", "hope" and "LOVE" prevail (with some believers), but I don't claim to be perfect in any of those aspects (despite the reality that I am sometimes EXCELLENT in one or more of them). I have aspirations concerning all of those things, but not necessarily by the approach others have claimed I SHOULD.

-Mel-