Father's Rights in Matters of Abortion

[theleftone]

While I personally detest abortion, I thought this might be an interesting question to discuss.

Should the father have a say in whether to abort a pregnancy or not?

[Cephus]

Not legally she can’t.
The man can act illegally and shirk his responsibility just as the woman can act illegally.

You haven't been keeping up with the news then, have you? The most recent case in the news was of a woman who lied to the man about being infertile and he was *STILL* held financially responsible when she got pregnant. There have been other cases where the woman lied to the man about who the father was and the courts have held that the man is responsible, even if he isn't the biological father, just because he's acted the role due to a lie.

This kind of thing happens all the time.

Custody and support issues often occur between very mature people, who, in this one aspect, do not have the best interests of the child as their concern.

Then they don't deserve to have a child to begin with. Simple, elegant solution.

If the woman is determined to cause problems, the man will have little recourse.

And the man can be lied to, cheated on, and still be forced to support a child he neither wanted, nor one that is even his.

[Cephus]

I have known women who never got over having an abortion, and women who never got over putting up for adpotption

And I've known women who have gotten an abortion, knew it was the best decision they could have made at the time, and gotten on with their lives.

[BeHereNow]

Cephus You haven't been keeping up with the news then, have you? The most recent case in the news was of a woman who lied to the man about being infertile and he was *STILL* held financially responsible when she got pregnant. There have been other cases where the woman lied to the man about who the father was and the courts have held that the man is responsible, even if he isn't the biological father, just because he's acted the role due to a lie.

If I still had broadband, I would google it myself.
Not that I doubt you, but could you provide a reference link?

CephusAnd I've known women who have gotten an abortion, knew it was the best decision they could have made at the time, and gotten on with their lives.

Your broad generalization of "And most overcome it just fine". is unsupported. No doubt we would disagree by what "overcome it just fine" means.
If you want to make the unsupported claim than when a child dies before a parent, "most (parents) overcome it just fine", then I know what you mean. And I would disagree.

[sue]

While I personally detest abortion, I thought this might be an interesting question to discuss.

Should the father have a say in whether to abort a pregnancy or not?

Ideally the potential father should have a say, but it can't be legislated because the fetus grows in the woman's body. This makes it a medical issue as well as a far more personal experience for her than it will ever be for a man, at least until we perfect man-wombs.

In abortion threads, you often see the argument that the woman should keep her legs closed if she doesn't want to become pregnant. Well, perhaps the man should keep his fly zipped if he doesn't want to be held financially responsible for a child.

[Cephus]

In abortion threads, you often see the argument that the woman should keep her legs closed if she doesn't want to become pregnant. Well, perhaps the man should keep his fly zipped if he doesn't want to be held financially responsible for a child.

The problem is, we allow the woman an out after the pregnancy begins via abortion, yet we do not allow the man any sort of out. If it is wrong to force a woman to become an involuntary womb, it is equally as wrong to force a man to become an involuntary wallet. In a perfect world, unwanted pregnancies would not occur because no one would have sex unless pregnancy was either wanted (or accepted as a possible consequence), but we all know we don't live in a perfect world. The best we can hope for right now is an EQUAL world and we don't live in one of those either.

[sue]

In abortion threads, you often see the argument that the woman should keep her legs closed if she doesn't want to become pregnant. Well, perhaps the man should keep his fly zipped if he doesn't want to be held financially responsible for a child.

The problem is, we allow the woman an out after the pregnancy begins via abortion, yet we do not allow the man any sort of out. If it is wrong to force a woman to become an involuntary womb, it is equally as wrong to force a man to become an involuntary wallet. In a perfect world, unwanted pregnancies would not occur because no one would have sex unless pregnancy was either wanted (or accepted as a possible consequence), but we all know we don't live in a perfect world. The best we can hope for right now is an EQUAL world and we don't live in one of those either.

If celibacy is practiced, there is no problem.

[Cephus]

If celibacy is practiced, there is no problem.

But it's not, so therefore we need to see equity between what are essentially irresponsible individuals who probably don't deserve to be parents to begin with. There currently is not equity. The system is unfairly stacked toward the mother who is legally able to lie to the man, get pregnant, and then hold the man legally and financially responsible for 18 years.

That simply is not fair, no matter how you cut it. In these situations, I'd rather see a lot *MORE* abortions because I don't want to see children raised by these manipulative, irresponsible parents at all.

[sue]

If celibacy is practiced, there is no problem.

But it's not, so therefore we need to see equity between what are essentially irresponsible individuals who probably don't deserve to be parents to begin with. There currently is not equity. The system is unfairly stacked toward the mother who is legally able to lie to the man, get pregnant, and then hold the man legally and financially responsible for 18 years.

That simply is not fair, no matter how you cut it. In these situations, I'd rather see a lot *MORE* abortions because I don't want to see children raised by these manipulative, irresponsible parents at all.

Who said life was fair? It's also perfectly legal for a man to lie to a woman about how much they love them when all they really want is to get laid. And celibacy is not the only option available to men. Condoms are readily available, and men can spend some time getting to know their partner before having sex with them. Or they have no interest in having children, they could look for a mate who also does not want children.

It seems to me that your whole case for unfairness is based upon the concept that men need and are entitled to have sex whenever and with whomever they like, without having to worry about consequences.

[Cephus]

Who said life was fair? It's also perfectly legal for a man to lie to a woman about how much they love them when all they really want is to get laid. And celibacy is not the only option available to men. Condoms are readily available, and men can spend some time getting to know their partner before having sex with them. Or they have no interest in having children, they could look for a mate who also does not want children.

Nobody did, so why don't we take away abortions entirely? After all, who said life is fair?

It seems to me that your whole case for unfairness is based upon the concept that men need and are entitled to have sex whenever and with whomever they like, without having to worry about consequences.

No, I'm basing it on the concept that NOBODY is entitled to have sex whenever and with whomever they like, but if you're going to give one side an out, you have to be equitable and give the other an equal out. This whole nonsense of women saying "we want to be equal, but we want extra rights too" is ridiculous. Equality for all or none at all.