Obamacare...health care for everybody, really?

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Obamacare

Poll ended at Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:07 pm

Obamacare is just fine; let's fund it and let it run already
1
9%
Obamacare is a step in the right direction; fund it and fix it later
6
55%
Obamacare is a disaster; fund it and watch it implode
0
No votes
Obamacare is a disaster: defund it and fight it with everything possible
1
9%
Obamacare has a couple of good ideas. Scrap the program, take those ideas and start over
3
27%
 
Total votes: 11

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dianaiad
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Obamacare...health care for everybody, really?

Post #1

Post by dianaiad »

Some of you know that I have a problem; I haven't been all that shy. Frankly, it makes me mad as all get out.

Oh, not because I HAVE this condition, though frankly, I feel like I would have had better chances of winning the lottery.

I have Multiple Myeloma, stage II, 'high risk.'
It's an odd duck; cancer of the bone marrow. What makes it 'high risk,' is a chromosomal abnormality that doesn't mean good news for survival.

Now I'm actually blessed with great insurance, paid by my husband's retirement; Kaiser Permanente. Because of that, I had a doctor who saw that I was slightly anemic and sent me for some 'further tests.' Those 'further tests' ended up being a LOT of tests (including a bone marrow biopsy, which I recommend to the Spanish Inquisition, or the CIA...perhaps especially the CIA, since nobody could object to the government 'taking care of the prisoner's health') The verdict was, yup, I got this thing; 75% of my bone marrow was cancerous plasma cells.

The REALLY odd thing is that most people who have this don't find out until they have broken bones, kidney failure, dementia, liver failure....it's a nasty disease. Me? My bones are fine and so are my kidneys and liver.

No cracks about my mental capacity, please. ;)

I'm in GREAT health...except for the dying of cancer part.

This Friday I'm going in for a bone marrow transplant. I'll be in the City of Hope for two to three weeks, while they destroy my immune system and then 'reset' it, in hopes that this will put me into a good, long term remission. There's a really good chance that it will work, despite the 'high risk' thing, because they caught it before it did any damage to my bones and organs. It has been borne upon me that this is EXTREMELY rare, that someone with as an aggressive form of this condition as mine is gets caught this early. OK, I'll take that.

After all, this disease mostly affects African American men over 65. I am about as lily white a redheaded blue eyed female as you can find. Why in the world would they even LOOK for something like this?

Now, why this longwinded introduction, she asks?
I'll tell you.

In the normal course of events (pre-Obamacare) I would get the transplant, have the rest of the stem cells (that were collected from me last week) frozen and kept in reserve for another one...which I'm almost guaranteed to need, and if that doesn't work, I'd do a third, using donor cells from one of my sisters. I hope. Neither my age nor my life condition would affect this, because, well, I have Kaiser and I would transfer that to a 'Senior Advantage' Kaiser membership next August. All done. Good thing, because I'm going to be taking extremely expensive medication (as in, $2000 per pill) for the rest of my life.

If I had NOT had good insurance, the City of Hope and the pharmaceutical companies that make the novel drugs for this have all sorts of programs: once you have Multiple Myeloma, you get the care. All you have to do is get to a facility that specializes in it.


I have been told, however, and I have since confirmed this, that if Obamacare gets through as written, this will no longer be true. For one thing, there will be no possibility of a donor transplant, (which is the only hope for an outright cure) the most effective medication won't be available , and it's highly possible that I won't be offered even the second transplant using my OWN stem cells. My prognosis, thanks to Obamacare, will go from a possible ten to fifteen years down to two or three....because the decisions for my health care won't be mine or my doctor's. They will be made by committees according to guidelines, which will include the idea that no matter what, people over 70 won't get that sort of treatment.

It doesn't matter what my doctor says, or what my insurance company now pays for; the government will regulate this.

I'm OK now. Things are getting paid for.

But what about next year, when Obamacare takes me over?

Now me, I'm an example, and of course this is hitting home hard for me....but I'm hardly unique. I have been talking to a great many MM patients from all over the world, and the ones from 'universal health care' nations, like Canada, Australia and Great Britain do not do well. They are sicker and die sooner, and many of them don't even know that there are novel agents that can treat them; because THEIR healthcare won't provide them.

Those of you who know me know that I don't LIKE Obamacare. Now you know why.

So.....here's the topic for debate (and I'll participate for the next three days...). If you wanted to fix health care in this nation, how would YOU do it? Obviously Obamacare isn't going to work.

Remember: the object is to make certain that:
1. Those who need health care GET it...the best available, not just the least expensive.
2. The decisions regarding health care should be made by the patient and the doctor, not by some faceless bureaucrat looking at cost/benefit charts.
3. Nobody has to go bankrupt because of health care expenses.
4. Healthcare is delivered efficiently, with no long waiting times.
5. Health professionals get paid enough to justify the student loans, and have autonomy.
6. So do patients, in their ability to choose who provides them health care.


Obamacare does NONE of the above, btw.

Go.

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Post #121

Post by help3434 »

[Replying to post 119 by johnmarc]

What does not purchasing health insurance now have to do with getting old later? You can chose to buy or not buy health insurance every year. Or we can until the individual mandate kicks in anyway.

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Post #122

Post by help3434 »

[Replying to post 119 by johnmarc]

I looked up "Winepusher" and "free clinics" and found Winepusher talking about the existence of private free clinics and you talking about you and your wife blowing off a $600 medical charge. How is Winepusher the freeloader?

WinePusher

Post #123

Post by WinePusher »

WinePusher wrote:What a load of nonsense.
johnmarc wrote:Moderators?
LOL go ahead. Calling your argument nonsense is not against the rules. However, calling someone a freeloader IS against the rules cause it's a personal remark. You were the one who started off making blatant personal remarks, and honestly, how would you know ANYTHING about me. Instead of focusing on me you should try focusing on the topic.

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Post #124

Post by johnmarc »

WinePusher wrote:
...and honestly, how would you know ANYTHING about me. Instead of focusing on me you should try focusing on the topic.
You have been a member since 2010 and have 3124 posts. Some of those conversations have been with me. Most of those have been on the healthcare issue. I should (by now) know something about you and you should (I hope) know something about me.

You have publicized that you don't have and don't want healthcare insurance. You were the one that made that public, not me. That makes you dependent on others along with millions who (collectively) use 'free' services that jack up the cost to others. This is one of the major components that the ACA is trying to address. I am addressing this important issue.

The issue of 'non-payers' must be (and is) addressed in the ACA.

'bout time---don't you think?
Why posit intention when ignorance will suffice?

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Post #125

Post by johnmarc »

help3434 wrote: [Replying to post 119 by johnmarc]

I looked up "Winepusher" and "free clinics" and found Winepusher talking about the existence of private free clinics and you talking about you and your wife blowing off a $600 medical charge. How is Winepusher the freeloader?
In my experience, the conservative movement makes a huge mistake which is illustrated in your example:

Rather than discover what is generally true, they pre-determine the 'truth' and then go searching for support. Instead of context and a clear understanding of the whole issue, they find factoids (like this) and use them to generalize an entire population. Whether it be the Bible or politics, the general is created from a handful of specifics that usually cannot be generalized rationally.

This is how Jesus is found in the Old Testament and this is how conservatives want to bring down ACA---isolated factoids which cannot be generalized (but are in conservative minds)

You did not provide the context for this which then would make an entirely different point than you are trying to make. But that wasn't the point. The point was to 'prove me wrong' with an isolated 'factoid' taken out of context---not for understanding, but to prove your point.

These kinds of (factoids into generalizations) do not translate well to the general population and conservatives are left to wonder why their points do not influence as they feel they should.


That's why.
Last edited by johnmarc on Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Why posit intention when ignorance will suffice?

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Post #126

Post by johnmarc »

dianaiad wrote:
So YOU can sit there and crow about how a $800 per month policy is a 'better' one than the $400 one that was canceled, but it's not better if the guy paying the premium CAN'T COME UP WITH $800.
Well, for one, I don't remember crowing about this. Can you show me where I did?

Please provide some evidence for this example. Find one individual who had a $400 policy and was left with only one option (an $800 policy)

Happy to wait as long as it takes.
Why posit intention when ignorance will suffice?

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Post #127

Post by help3434 »

[Replying to post 125 by johnmarc]

Did you mean to reply to the post you quoted?

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Post #128

Post by Nickman »

WinePusher wrote:

The Young Turks spews out liberal propaganda on all its videos. Please, try using the Young Turks as one of your sources on the next academic paper you write and see what your professor or adviser has to say. It's funny how people will complain about Fox News and then turn around and use a fake news source like the Young Turks. For the record, Fox News > The Young Turks.
And I can say that mainstream media spews out the very information that their constituents want them too, and I would be more correct. Media is only as good as their unbias. Fox News is a right wing news source that only reports bad against the Dems and Liberals, and praises the Repubs even when they are dead wrong. Their audience is predominently 65 and above, and republicans. Their bias is apparent all the time. They are apologists for the right wing and naysayers to the left.

Actually, I don't have a problem with anything you've written. Yes, I agree that there should be some socialist components within our healthcare system that takes care of those who genuinely cannot help themselves. But, what does any of this have to do with Obamacare? The problem with Obamacare is the individual mandate. Forcing people to buy something against their will is completely against everything this country was founded on. And not only does this atrocious law destroy our personal liberty, it is also a drag on economic growth and employment. The negative economic impacts of Obamacare are well documented.
You don't think you should have healthcare? Is it liberty for a person to deny health care under the current healthcare system to the expense of others? When they get sick, who fits the bill? Taxpayers!

Here is a perfect example that was covered by TYT but you didn't want to watch the video because it is "unreputable."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/insuran ... -obamacare

Donna received the letter canceling her insurance plan on Sept. 16. Her insurance company, LifeWise of Washington, told her that they'd identified a new plan for her. If she did nothing, she'd be covered.

A 56-year-old Seattle resident with a 57-year-old husband and 15-year-old daughter, Donna had been looking forward to the savings that the Affordable Care Act had to offer.

But that's not what she found. Instead, she'd be paying an additional $300 a month for coverage. The letter made no mention of the health insurance marketplace that would soon open in Washington, where she could shop for competitive plans, and only an oblique reference to financial help that she might qualify for, if she made the effort to call and find out.

Otherwise, she'd be automatically rolled over to a new plan -- and, as the letter said, "If you're happy with this plan, do nothing."

If Donna had done nothing, she would have ended up spending about $1,000 more a month for insurance than she will now that she went to the marketplace, picked the best plan for her family and accessed tax credits at the heart of the health care reform law.

"The info that we were sent by LifeWise was totally bogus. Why the heck did they try to screw us?" Donna said. "People who are afraid of the ACA should be much more afraid of the insurance companies who will exploit their fear and end up overcharging them."

Donna is not alone.


How the health care law protects you

1.Creates the Health Insurance Marketplace, a new way for individuals, families, and small businesses to get health coverage

2.Requires insurance companies to cover people with pre-existing health conditions

3.Helps you understand the coverage you’re getting

4.Holds insurance companies accountable for rate increases

5.Makes it illegal for health insurance companies to arbitrarily cancel your health insurance just because you get sick

6.Protects your choice of doctors

7.Covers young adults under 26

8.Provides free preventive care

9.Ends lifetime and yearly dollar limits on coverage of essential health benefits

10.Guarantees your right to appeal

WinePusher

Post #129

Post by WinePusher »

johnmarc wrote:You have publicized that you don't have and don't want healthcare insurance. You were the one that made that public, not me.
What a load of nonsense. Provide the quote where I said this along with the link. I dare you.
johnmarc wrote:That makes you dependent on others along with millions who (collectively) use 'free' services that jack up the cost to others.
Here's a piece of advice for you, stop obsessing about me. I'm not going to tell some random person over the internet ANYTHING about my insurance plans or personal finances because it's none of your business. It also isn't relevant to the topic. You have a warped understanding of Obamacare, as do many others in this thread. You're complaining about 'freeloaders' yet you don't even mention the fact that under Obamacare individuals will be forced to subsidize healthcare for other individuals. This is the definition of freeloading.
johnmarc wrote:The issue of 'non-payers' must be (and is) addressed in the ACA.

'bout time---don't you think?
Like I said, you don't seem to understand the law. The purpose of Obamacare is to extend insurance coverage to individuals who do not have any. People are going to be forced to pay a tax, and the money collected from this tax will be used to subsidize healthcare for individuals who can't afford it. This is called freeloading, yet I doubt hear you complaining about it. This makes me think that you complaint is disingenuous.

WinePusher

Post #130

Post by WinePusher »

Nickman wrote:And I can say that mainstream media spews out the very information that their constituents want them too, and I would be more correct.
No, you really wouldn't. :lol:

But, I would simply suggest you start learning your facts from more sophisticated sources of information. Nobody, other than you, is going to accept ANY information the Young Turks puts out. And nobody is going to take what you say seriously if you keep using a lame YouTube channel to support all your assertions.
Nickman wrote:You don't think you should have healthcare? Is it liberty for a person to deny health care under the current healthcare system to the expense of others? When they get sick, who fits the bill? Taxpayers!
I think individuals should be able to make financial choices for themselves. There is NOTHING in the constitution that permits the government to mandate people to purchase insurance. And I'm glad to see that you are upset about taxpayers paying for sick people. Am I to take it that you are against redistributing income from the rich to the poor? You don't think welfare or food stamps should exist?
Nickman wrote:Here is a perfect example that was covered by TYT but you didn't want to watch the video because it is "unreputable."
1) I don't care about anecdotal evidence. It is worthless in my opinion.
2) I don't care about anything that the Young Turks have to say.

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