Obamacare...health care for everybody, really?

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Obamacare

Poll ended at Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:07 pm

Obamacare is just fine; let's fund it and let it run already
1
9%
Obamacare is a step in the right direction; fund it and fix it later
6
55%
Obamacare is a disaster; fund it and watch it implode
0
No votes
Obamacare is a disaster: defund it and fight it with everything possible
1
9%
Obamacare has a couple of good ideas. Scrap the program, take those ideas and start over
3
27%
 
Total votes: 11

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dianaiad
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Obamacare...health care for everybody, really?

Post #1

Post by dianaiad »

Some of you know that I have a problem; I haven't been all that shy. Frankly, it makes me mad as all get out.

Oh, not because I HAVE this condition, though frankly, I feel like I would have had better chances of winning the lottery.

I have Multiple Myeloma, stage II, 'high risk.'
It's an odd duck; cancer of the bone marrow. What makes it 'high risk,' is a chromosomal abnormality that doesn't mean good news for survival.

Now I'm actually blessed with great insurance, paid by my husband's retirement; Kaiser Permanente. Because of that, I had a doctor who saw that I was slightly anemic and sent me for some 'further tests.' Those 'further tests' ended up being a LOT of tests (including a bone marrow biopsy, which I recommend to the Spanish Inquisition, or the CIA...perhaps especially the CIA, since nobody could object to the government 'taking care of the prisoner's health') The verdict was, yup, I got this thing; 75% of my bone marrow was cancerous plasma cells.

The REALLY odd thing is that most people who have this don't find out until they have broken bones, kidney failure, dementia, liver failure....it's a nasty disease. Me? My bones are fine and so are my kidneys and liver.

No cracks about my mental capacity, please. ;)

I'm in GREAT health...except for the dying of cancer part.

This Friday I'm going in for a bone marrow transplant. I'll be in the City of Hope for two to three weeks, while they destroy my immune system and then 'reset' it, in hopes that this will put me into a good, long term remission. There's a really good chance that it will work, despite the 'high risk' thing, because they caught it before it did any damage to my bones and organs. It has been borne upon me that this is EXTREMELY rare, that someone with as an aggressive form of this condition as mine is gets caught this early. OK, I'll take that.

After all, this disease mostly affects African American men over 65. I am about as lily white a redheaded blue eyed female as you can find. Why in the world would they even LOOK for something like this?

Now, why this longwinded introduction, she asks?
I'll tell you.

In the normal course of events (pre-Obamacare) I would get the transplant, have the rest of the stem cells (that were collected from me last week) frozen and kept in reserve for another one...which I'm almost guaranteed to need, and if that doesn't work, I'd do a third, using donor cells from one of my sisters. I hope. Neither my age nor my life condition would affect this, because, well, I have Kaiser and I would transfer that to a 'Senior Advantage' Kaiser membership next August. All done. Good thing, because I'm going to be taking extremely expensive medication (as in, $2000 per pill) for the rest of my life.

If I had NOT had good insurance, the City of Hope and the pharmaceutical companies that make the novel drugs for this have all sorts of programs: once you have Multiple Myeloma, you get the care. All you have to do is get to a facility that specializes in it.


I have been told, however, and I have since confirmed this, that if Obamacare gets through as written, this will no longer be true. For one thing, there will be no possibility of a donor transplant, (which is the only hope for an outright cure) the most effective medication won't be available , and it's highly possible that I won't be offered even the second transplant using my OWN stem cells. My prognosis, thanks to Obamacare, will go from a possible ten to fifteen years down to two or three....because the decisions for my health care won't be mine or my doctor's. They will be made by committees according to guidelines, which will include the idea that no matter what, people over 70 won't get that sort of treatment.

It doesn't matter what my doctor says, or what my insurance company now pays for; the government will regulate this.

I'm OK now. Things are getting paid for.

But what about next year, when Obamacare takes me over?

Now me, I'm an example, and of course this is hitting home hard for me....but I'm hardly unique. I have been talking to a great many MM patients from all over the world, and the ones from 'universal health care' nations, like Canada, Australia and Great Britain do not do well. They are sicker and die sooner, and many of them don't even know that there are novel agents that can treat them; because THEIR healthcare won't provide them.

Those of you who know me know that I don't LIKE Obamacare. Now you know why.

So.....here's the topic for debate (and I'll participate for the next three days...). If you wanted to fix health care in this nation, how would YOU do it? Obviously Obamacare isn't going to work.

Remember: the object is to make certain that:
1. Those who need health care GET it...the best available, not just the least expensive.
2. The decisions regarding health care should be made by the patient and the doctor, not by some faceless bureaucrat looking at cost/benefit charts.
3. Nobody has to go bankrupt because of health care expenses.
4. Healthcare is delivered efficiently, with no long waiting times.
5. Health professionals get paid enough to justify the student loans, and have autonomy.
6. So do patients, in their ability to choose who provides them health care.


Obamacare does NONE of the above, btw.

Go.

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johnmarc
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Post #21

Post by johnmarc »

[Replying to post 18 by dianaiad]

Dianaid wrote:

"I spelled out specifically how Obamacare affects my situation."

No, you spelled out specifically how you think that Obamacare might affect your situation. And you did it with your usual one-sided polemic.

And you neglected the effects of Obamacare on millions of individuals struggling to get any kind of reasonably priced insurance under our present private (for profit) system.

Oh, Wait---that is part of the polemic.
Why posit intention when ignorance will suffice?

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dianaiad
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Post #22

Post by dianaiad »

johnmarc wrote: [Replying to post 18 by dianaiad]

Dianaid wrote:

"I spelled out specifically how Obamacare affects my situation."

No, you spelled out specifically how you think that Obamacare might affect your situation. And you did it with your usual one-sided polemic.

And you neglected the effects of Obamacare on millions of individuals struggling to get any kind of reasonably priced insurance under our present private (for profit) system.

Oh, Wait---that is part of the polemic.
No, jonmarc, I was very specific about the exact guidelines that will affect me. Exactly what will happen. No 'polemic,' simply fact. I can't help it if you don't want to believe that.

BTW, in California everybody's insurance premiums are going to go UP 13%, for fewer benefits. How is that going to help the millions who can't afford health care NOW?

WinePusher

Post #23

Post by WinePusher »

dianaiad wrote:What would YOU do, Winepusher, if you could design a healthcare reform measure?
I would introduce market forces into the healthcare system by repealing government laws and regulations. That is the only thing that needs to be done. The reason our healthcare system is broken to begin with is because of government interference. So yes, our healthcare system needs to be fixed but introducing more government into the healthcare market will only worsen the problem. The only way to fix the problem is to reduce the amount of government intervention that already exists.

The healthcare industry is just like any other market. There is the market for food, the market for electronics, the market for life insurance, the market for fire insurance, etc. These markets are governed by the market forces of supply and demand. Similarly, there is a demand for healthcare and a supply of healthcare and just like everything else, healthcare is a scarce resource. The supply and demand for healthcare determines the price and costs of healthcare. In addition, hospitals and insurance providers should be competing with each other for customers.

The government has screwed up both. By forcing everybody to purchase insurance the government will increase the demand for healthcare. You're going to have a bunch of people buying insurance even though they don't need it and these people will utilize their insurance for unnecessary medical purposes. The increase in demand and the decrease in supply will cause healthcare costs to go up even more. The government also prevents healthcare firms from competing nationwide. This reduces competition in the market and allows monopolists to gain market power which distorts prices even further.

So, I would get rid of all government laws and regulations afflicting the healthcare industry and give people the freedom to buy and sell healthcare as they please.

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dianaiad
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Post #24

Post by dianaiad »

WinePusher wrote:
dianaiad wrote:What would YOU do, Winepusher, if you could design a healthcare reform measure?
I would introduce market forces into the healthcare system by repealing government laws and regulations. That is the only thing that needs to be done. The reason our healthcare system is broken to begin with is because of government interference. So yes, our healthcare system needs to be fixed but introducing more government into the healthcare market will only worsen the problem. The only way to fix the problem is to reduce the amount of government intervention that already exists.

The healthcare industry is just like any other market. There is the market for food, the market for electronics, the market for life insurance, the market for fire insurance, etc. These markets are governed by the market forces of supply and demand. Similarly, there is a demand for healthcare and a supply of healthcare and just like everything else, healthcare is a scarce resource. The supply and demand for healthcare determines the price and costs of healthcare. In addition, hospitals and insurance providers should be competing with each other for customers.

The government has screwed up both. By forcing everybody to purchase insurance the government will increase the demand for healthcare. You're going to have a bunch of people buying insurance even though they don't need it and these people will utilize their insurance for unnecessary medical purposes. The increase in demand and the decrease in supply will cause healthcare costs to go up even more. The government also prevents healthcare firms from competing nationwide. This reduces competition in the market and allows monopolists to gain market power which distorts prices even further.

So, I would get rid of all government laws and regulations afflicting the healthcare industry and give people the freedom to buy and sell healthcare as they please.
Now me, I'm all for market forces.

How would you address the problem of pre-existing conditions, and the propensity for health insurance companies to cancel policies as soon as you have a claim too large for their bottom line?

Because up until Obamacare, insurance companies would not insure you if you had a pre-existing condition...or else they would exclude that pre-existing condition from coverage, or they would charge premiums too high for anybody but Bill Gates to afford.

I wish they didn't do that, but without being made to, they do. Now there is a very good reason for that, and with Obamacare, we find ourselves in a bit of a pickle where someone could go happily paying the fine for not getting insurance (the fine is going to be FAR less than insurance premiums even for the most basic plans) and then as soon as they have something really expensive, they'll get insurance to get that whatever it is paid for.

I think everyone can see that this isn't going to work well, economically.

But it's a problem. How do you think 'market forces' will fix it?

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100%atheist
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Re: Obamacare...health care for everybody, really?

Post #25

Post by 100%atheist »

dianaiad wrote: Believe me, telling this story on this public forum if it is not true is a spectacularly stupid thing to do. I hope I have not proven myself to be quite that stupid....but you believe what you wish.
Why would it be stupid if you work for the hospital and the insurance company that you advertised?

I think that even if your story is true, it can be a good business for you as a master of words to sell your talent to some companies that look for placing advertisements through social media. This is as far the other side of stupid as it can be.

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dianaiad
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Re: Obamacare...health care for everybody, really?

Post #26

Post by dianaiad »

100%atheist wrote:
dianaiad wrote: Believe me, telling this story on this public forum if it is not true is a spectacularly stupid thing to do. I hope I have not proven myself to be quite that stupid....but you believe what you wish.
Why would it be stupid if you work for the hospital and the insurance company that you advertised?

I do not work for Kaiser Permanente in any capacity, nor do I work for the City of Hope nor for any business that affiliates with them. If I did, doing what you are accusing me of would not only be stupid, it's highly illegal.

Tell me: ARE you calling me a liar? I've been shedding like Sheltie all day, and I have pink spots on my scalp that have never seen the light of day. Do I need to post a picture of me in all my bald glory, complete with the Hickman catheter poking out of my T-shirt?

With all due respect, 100% atheist, I have been MISTAKEN on the internet. I've been wrong. I've changed my mind. I have never deliberately lied.

(shrug) but you believe what you want to believe.
100%atheist wrote:I think that even if your story is true, it can be a good business for you as a master of words
Now THAT'S about as backhanded a compliment as I've ever been given....
100%atheist wrote:to sell your talent to some companies that look for placing advertisements through social media. This is as far the other side of stupid as it can be.
More than you knowm evidently. So, you are not only accusing me of lying, but of being abysmally stupid and unethical as well?

I actually have done some copywriting. Not much, lately, but because I have, I know that doing what you are accusing me of is highly unethical and illegal; if you are advertising for someone, you have to say so. If you are advertising and say so, and tell a story you claim is true, it had better by golly be true. You can get into a great deal of trouble otherwise. Oh, and you have to DISCLOSE THAT YOU WORK FOR THE COMPANY AND ARE ADVERTISING.

If you are accusing me of this because you have been doing it yourself and 'getting away with it,' I suggest that you stop and look up some of the laws regarding this sort of behavior.

ARE you accusing me of not only lying, but breaking about a dozen laws that would result in (at the very least) REALLY hefty ffines? Are you accusing me of doing this in order to get some sort of financial return?

I'd really like to know that.

..............and I would like to point out to all and sundry just how calmly I am handling this, because frankly, your post is about as far on the outside of outrageous as is possible to go. You realize that, right?

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Post #27

Post by Jay Gatsby »

Being an Englishmen I'm not too privy to the on-goings of American politics, but from what I've heard, it was bad legislation rushed through.

I like socialised healthcare(A mix of public and private, mostly public) and I think it works well.

The main issue I have with Obamacare is that from what I understand it makes it the individual's employer responsible for paying their premiums or whatever you call them there.
Here you pay your taxes and it all comes out of that. It's no wonder companies are cutting hours and doing everything they can to avoid paying out, they're a business... That doesn't really do much for the worker though.

I'd say scrap it and start over, though it isn't going to work with Obama being the one pushing it. I think he's had his chance and blown it as far as his credibility to produce something worthwhile for society.

WinePusher

Post #28

Post by WinePusher »

dianaiad wrote:How would you address the problem of pre-existing conditions, and the propensity for health insurance companies to cancel policies as soon as you have a claim too large for their bottom line?
I certainly wouldn't solve the problem using the method that Obamacare uses. Here's a good Forbes article addressing the problem with pre-existing conditions.

The reason why insurance companies won't cover people with pre-existing conditions is that it would essentially cause them financial ruin. You have many healthy people pay premiums into an insurance pool, and the insurance company then draws from this premium to pay for the health expenses for the people who get sick. This is how insurance is supposed to work. Healthy people purchase it just in case they get sick later on. The pre-existing condition problem distorts this because you have people who are already sick purchasing insurance. In a sense, it's like somebody going to purchase flood insurance after their home has already been destroyed.

So my solution would be to have pre-existing conditions covered under a separate plan, which would be state run high risk insurance pools. The Republican proposal (outlined in the Forbes article) seems fine to me.

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100%atheist
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Re: Obamacare...health care for everybody, really?

Post #29

Post by 100%atheist »

dianaiad wrote:
100%atheist wrote:
dianaiad wrote: Believe me, telling this story on this public forum if it is not true is a spectacularly stupid thing to do. I hope I have not proven myself to be quite that stupid....but you believe what you wish.
Why would it be stupid if you work for the hospital and the insurance company that you advertised?

I do not work for Kaiser Permanente in any capacity, nor do I work for the City of Hope nor for any business that affiliates with them. If I did, doing what you are accusing me of would not only be stupid, it's highly illegal.

Tell me: ARE you calling me a liar? I've been shedding like Sheltie all day, and I have pink spots on my scalp that have never seen the light of day. Do I need to post a picture of me in all my bald glory, complete with the Hickman catheter poking out of my T-shirt?

With all due respect, 100% atheist, I have been MISTAKEN on the internet. I've been wrong. I've changed my mind. I have never deliberately lied.

(shrug) but you believe what you want to believe.
100%atheist wrote:I think that even if your story is true, it can be a good business for you as a master of words
Now THAT'S about as backhanded a compliment as I've ever been given....
100%atheist wrote:to sell your talent to some companies that look for placing advertisements through social media. This is as far the other side of stupid as it can be.
More than you knowm evidently. So, you are not only accusing me of lying, but of being abysmally stupid and unethical as well?

I actually have done some copywriting. Not much, lately, but because I have, I know that doing what you are accusing me of is highly unethical and illegal; if you are advertising for someone, you have to say so. If you are advertising and say so, and tell a story you claim is true, it had better by golly be true. You can get into a great deal of trouble otherwise. Oh, and you have to DISCLOSE THAT YOU WORK FOR THE COMPANY AND ARE ADVERTISING.

If you are accusing me of this because you have been doing it yourself and 'getting away with it,' I suggest that you stop and look up some of the laws regarding this sort of behavior.

ARE you accusing me of not only lying, but breaking about a dozen laws that would result in (at the very least) REALLY hefty ffines? Are you accusing me of doing this in order to get some sort of financial return?

I'd really like to know that.

..............and I would like to point out to all and sundry just how calmly I am handling this, because frankly, your post is about as far on the outside of outrageous as is possible to go. You realize that, right?
Umm...
First, I am not accusing you of anything. Period.
I do not believe you and I don't believe anyone telling very personal stories on the web injecting names of real companies in the stories. Some good half of reviews on the internet are not real reviews, so why should we listen without reservations?

Second, I have no idea where you got an idea that paid posts in social media are somehow against laws. Plenty of people do it on tweeter openly, for example; why is this forum any different?

However, all these are totally different topics...

P.S.: If you really go to a hospital this week, good luck and "may the force be with you". :D
P.P.S.: a couple months ago met a pretty girl at hospice. In two weeks she died. Cancer sucks.

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100%atheist
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Re: Obamacare...health care for everybody, really?

Post #30

Post by 100%atheist »

dianaiad wrote:
100%atheist wrote:
dianaiad wrote: Believe me, telling this story on this public forum if it is not true is a spectacularly stupid thing to do. I hope I have not proven myself to be quite that stupid....but you believe what you wish.
Why would it be stupid if you work for the hospital and the insurance company that you advertised?

I do not work for Kaiser Permanente in any capacity, nor do I work for the City of Hope nor for any business that affiliates with them. If I did, doing what you are accusing me of would not only be stupid, it's highly illegal.

Tell me: ARE you calling me a liar? I've been shedding like Sheltie all day, and I have pink spots on my scalp that have never seen the light of day. Do I need to post a picture of me in all my bald glory, complete with the Hickman catheter poking out of my T-shirt?

With all due respect, 100% atheist, I have been MISTAKEN on the internet. I've been wrong. I've changed my mind. I have never deliberately lied.

(shrug) but you believe what you want to believe.
100%atheist wrote:I think that even if your story is true, it can be a good business for you as a master of words
Now THAT'S about as backhanded a compliment as I've ever been given....
100%atheist wrote:to sell your talent to some companies that look for placing advertisements through social media. This is as far the other side of stupid as it can be.
More than you knowm evidently. So, you are not only accusing me of lying, but of being abysmally stupid and unethical as well?

I actually have done some copywriting. Not much, lately, but because I have, I know that doing what you are accusing me of is highly unethical and illegal; if you are advertising for someone, you have to say so. If you are advertising and say so, and tell a story you claim is true, it had better by golly be true. You can get into a great deal of trouble otherwise. Oh, and you have to DISCLOSE THAT YOU WORK FOR THE COMPANY AND ARE ADVERTISING.

If you are accusing me of this because you have been doing it yourself and 'getting away with it,' I suggest that you stop and look up some of the laws regarding this sort of behavior.

ARE you accusing me of not only lying, but breaking about a dozen laws that would result in (at the very least) REALLY hefty ffines? Are you accusing me of doing this in order to get some sort of financial return?

I'd really like to know that.

..............and I would like to point out to all and sundry just how calmly I am handling this, because frankly, your post is about as far on the outside of outrageous as is possible to go. You realize that, right?
Umm...
First, I am not accusing you of anything. Period.
I do not believe you and I don't believe anyone telling very personal stories on the web injecting names of real companies in the stories. Some good half of reviews on the internet are not real reviews, so why should we listen without reservations?

Second, I have no idea where you got an idea that paid posts in social media are somehow against laws. Plenty of people do it on tweeter openly, for example; why is this forum any different?

However, all these are totally different topics...

P.S.: If you really go to a hospital this week, good luck and "may the force be with you". :D
P.P.S.: a couple months ago met a pretty girl at hospice. In two weeks she died. Cancer sucks.

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