Immigration and minorities

[Cewakiyelo]

Here are a couple of interesting things I was given to review and I thought they were good enough to pass along so I am passing them along. Please feel free to comment on these two items if you wish.

Authorship unknown.

On February 4th, 2013, Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, addressed the Duma, (Russian Parliament), and gave a speech about the tensions with minorities in Russia:

"In Russia live Russians. Any minority, from anywhere, if it wants to live in Russia, to work and eat in Russia, should speak Russian, and should respect the Russian laws. If they prefer Sharia Law, then we advise them to go to those places where that's the state law. Russia does not need minorities. Minorities need Russia, and we will not grant them special privileges, or try to change our laws to fit their desires, no matter how loud they yell 'discrimination'. We better learn from the suicides of America, England, Holland and France, if we are to survive as a nation. The Russian customs and traditions are not compatible with the lack of culture or the primitive ways of most minorities. When this honorable legislative body thinks of creating new laws, it should have in mind the national interest first, observing that the minorities are not Russians.

This next item is a video by Ray Stevens it is a laugh yourself out of your seat lyrical commentary on the U.S. policy concerning immigration. It is to funny and sadly to true.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/WgOHOHKBEq ... detailpage

[Wyvern]

This is another example of how liberals don't know anything about logic.

Lol, no all I did was point out that what you are complaining about liberals, Reagan the progenitor of the modern conservative movement did far worse by granting amnesty.

I'm not familiar with the Reagan Administration's policy regarding immigration, but if he was for full amnesty and open borders then he's dead wrong,

Reagan wasn't just for amnesty he actually granted it to millions of illegal immigrants. Something which no liberal I'm aware of is even seriously contemplating.

regardless of the fact that he was right on about 99% of all the other issues.

How can you say he was right about anything when you just freely admitted to not being familiar with his policies? You are aware I hope that he was responsible for a massive tax cut along with an equally massive tax hike in other areas? Or that the way he pulled the nation out of what was called stagflation at the time was to massively increase government spending? Or by backing the Afghans when the Soviets invaded he was instrumental in creating both the Taliban and Al Qaida? How about Iran-Contra?

I think that we should stop persecuting genuine illegal immigrants who come here seeking a better life, we should allow them to stay. But, we should not give them access to voting rights or welfare or things of that nature. Of course you're probably against that because the only reason why liberals wants immigrants here is to utilize their votes.

So you are against the Obama administration policy of going after illegals? Could you explain what is a genuine and a non-genuine illegal? Is that like a genuine rape victim? It sounds to me like you are also in favor of granting amnesty to illegals. If they are in the country illegally they should be deported, it's a slap in the face to every immigrant that is going through the process to suddenly tell everyone that as long as they are here for the right reasons they can stay in our nation as long as they want. Am I to infer from your comments here that you are in favor of unlimited immigration? Where did you come up with that silly notion of liberals needing illegal immigrant votes to win an election? Is that Karl Roves current excuse why the Republicans lost?

[Cewakiyelo]

[Replying to post 3 by Cewakiyelo]

Agreed. Here is a great video illustrating the liberal (il)logic about immigration:

Lol I love it you complain about liberal ideas on immigration when it was the great conservative icon Reagan that granted amnesty to millions of illegals.

This is another example of how liberals don't know anything about logic.

I'm not familiar with the Reagan Administration's policy regarding immigration, but if he was for full amnesty and open borders then he's dead wrong, regardless of the fact that he was right on about 99% of all the other issues. I think that we should stop persecuting genuine illegal immigrants who come here seeking a better life, we should allow them to stay. But, we should not give them access to voting rights or welfare or things of that nature. Of course you're probably against that because the only reason why liberals wants immigrants here is to utilize their votes.

Personally. I dont think what Reagan did matters. Pointing to Reagan is like saying "hey, look over there" and its distracting from the issue before us today. Well, Reagan did this or Clinton did this, or Bush did this, or etc etc etc. Its a distraction from the issue. IMHO

I'm sorry what did you say. I was busy looking at something else.

You are absolutely right. It really matters not how we got into this mess. It is what are we going to do to fix this mess. To say it is the liberals or the conservatives who are responsible amounts to sticking ones head in the sand. The fact is that everyone makes mistakes, liberals and conservatives alike. A bad idea is a bad idea regardless of who's mouth it comes out of.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 3 by Cewakiyelo]

Agreed. Here is a great video illustrating the liberal (il)logic about immigration:

Lol I love it you complain about liberal ideas on immigration when it was the great conservative icon Reagan that granted amnesty to millions of illegals.

This is another example of how liberals don't know anything about logic.

I'm not familiar with the Reagan Administration's policy regarding immigration, but if he was for full amnesty and open borders then he's dead wrong, regardless of the fact that he was right on about 99% of all the other issues. I think that we should stop persecuting genuine illegal immigrants who come here seeking a better life, we should allow them to stay. But, we should not give them access to voting rights or welfare or things of that nature. Of course you're probably against that because the only reason why liberals wants immigrants here is to utilize their votes.

Moderator Comment

Please don't make blanket statements about others. Just explain why something is illogical because if they are being illogical I am sure they do want it pointed out but without the judgement.

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[marketandchurch]

Here are a couple of interesting things I was given to review and I thought they were good enough to pass along so I am passing them along. Please feel free to comment on these two items if you wish.

Authorship unknown.

On February 4th, 2013, Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, addressed the Duma, (Russian Parliament), and gave a speech about the tensions with minorities in Russia:

"In Russia live Russians. Any minority, from anywhere, if it wants to live in Russia, to work and eat in Russia, should speak Russian, and should respect the Russian laws. If they prefer Sharia Law, then we advise them to go to those places where that's the state law. Russia does not need minorities. Minorities need Russia, and we will not grant them special privileges, or try to change our laws to fit their desires, no matter how loud they yell 'discrimination'. We better learn from the suicides of America, England, Holland and France, if we are to survive as a nation. The Russian customs and traditions are not compatible with the lack of culture or the primitive ways of most minorities. When this honorable legislative body thinks of creating new laws, it should have in mind the national interest first, observing that the minorities are not Russians.

This next item is a video by Ray Stevens it is a laugh yourself out of your seat lyrical commentary on the U.S. policy concerning immigration. It is to funny and sadly to true.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/WgOHOHKBEq ... detailpage

Putin is correct for the most part. The Republican position on immigration is also correct for the most part. However, the idea that immigration is a bad thing should be rejected right off the bat. It depends what type of immigrants are coming here and for what purpose. Right now, their puporse is to primarily mooch off the bloated welfare system in the United States. Only big government liberals would see this as a good thing.

But, the idea of immigration in general should be supported. If we have massive amounts of foreigners immigrating here it indicates that our economy is strong and prosperous. It also increases the supply of labor available so that businesses can hire more people and expand their productive capacity. So, immigration is a net positive for the country if and only if we don't have harmful policies in place like universal healthcare or universal welfare from cradle to grave, etc.

I largely agree with you, but Putin is wrong. The russian economy is a corpse that limbers on like a zombie. The russian demographics are the worse of all Europeans, with most men not living past the age of 50, and having the lowest replacement birthrate of all the European countries. It is a demographic collapse that is slowly becoming irreversible. So russia is dead wrong. It not only needs the immigrants who are willing to reproduce the workforce, that will power the Russian economy of tomorrow, but they need to get their own people to begin having children as well.

http://www.newgeography.com/content/003 ... immigrants
I think Joel Kotkin describes my views on immigration the best.

I'm not afraid of what Immigrants will do to America. I'm afraid of what America will do to immigrants. We're not even teaching our children how to be Americans, we're certainly doing an even worse of a job to immigrants. The longer they stay in poverty and have no chance at upward mobility, the higher the chance they'll never leave poverty, and the higher the liklihood of their children also being stuck in perpetual poverty.

http://www.city-journal.org/2012/22_1_c ... phics.html

And in any event, Americans are beginning to stop having babies, namely because the secular don't reproduce. White Liberals will have 1 child, if any at all, and that is a problem. Hispanics are a problem today, but they may be an asset tomorrow. Companies who are afraid of the Chinese stealing their secrets and not respecting their patented research and development, will increasingly make America and Mexico their home.

Especially since the Panama canal is being widened, and Airbus has opened up a factory in Alabama, alongside Mercedes Benz and Toyota, Nissan and Volkswagen in Tennessee, BMW and Boeing in South Carolina, the entire industry of military contractors and aerospace in Virginia, Nissan in Louisiana, and the Ports of Texas and Louisiana to become the most active ports in the world, and of course, the economies and intellectual hubs of Texas and North Carolina, the South is ready to lead America into the new American Century, and it will need the immigrant workers that everyone else wants to get rid of. The issue is whether we Americanize Hispanics, as we have done with previous generation of American immigrants, or not. The Democrats do not want that.

[East of Eden]

[Replying to post 3 by Cewakiyelo]

Agreed. Here is a great video illustrating the liberal (il)logic about immigration:

Lol I love it you complain about liberal ideas on immigration when it was the great conservative icon Reagan that granted amnesty to millions of illegals.

He did that based on the Democratic promise that they would secure the borders, they didn't. What a surprise.

[East of Eden]

How can you say he was right about anything when you just freely admitted to not being familiar with his policies? You are aware I hope that he was responsible for a massive tax cut along with an equally massive tax hike in other areas? Or that the way he pulled the nation out of what was called stagflation at the time was to massively increase government spending?

You really want to compare Reagan's economic record with say, the current POTUS?

Or by backing the Afghans when the Soviets invaded he was instrumental in creating both the Taliban and Al Qaida?

As silly as saying FDR created the Cold War by backing Stalin in WWII.

So you are against the Obama administration policy of going after illegals?

What are you talking about? They prevented AZ from enforcing immigration laws regarding illegals.

Here's my solution to the illegal problem (with a different name, of course):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback

[Wyvern]

How can you say he was right about anything when you just freely admitted to not being familiar with his policies? You are aware I hope that he was responsible for a massive tax cut along with an equally massive tax hike in other areas? Or that the way he pulled the nation out of what was called stagflation at the time was to massively increase government spending?

You really want to compare Reagan's economic record with say, the current POTUS?

I was not making comparisons in any way shape or form so I don't understand why you would make such a statement. I was commenting on Winepushers statement that Reagan was correct 90+% of the time while in his same post he said he was not familiar with the mans policies. Would you care to explain how someone can make such a definitive statement while at the same time not even being aware of what they are talking about and admitting it all at the same time?

Or by backing the Afghans when the Soviets invaded he was instrumental in creating both the Taliban and Al Qaida?

As silly as saying FDR created the Cold War by backing Stalin in WWII.

I understand this is just another example of your penchant for demonizing democrats however if you would actually look at the historical record it would be more accurate to blame Harding if you are bound and determined to lay blame. During his administration he helped prevent some twenty million russians from starving to death and incidentally prevented the Bolshevik revolution from collapsing due to famine.

So you are against the Obama administration policy of going after illegals?

What are you talking about? They prevented AZ from enforcing immigration laws regarding illegals.

Here's my solution to the illegal problem (with a different name, of course):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback

Your solution requires cooperation from the Mexican government which in the present time is not likely to be forthcoming. This solution of yours resulted in just over a million deportations in eight years while Obama in his first four years deported over 1.5 million illegals.

[East of Eden]

How can you say he was right about anything when you just freely admitted to not being familiar with his policies? You are aware I hope that he was responsible for a massive tax cut along with an equally massive tax hike in other areas? Or that the way he pulled the nation out of what was called stagflation at the time was to massively increase government spending?

You really want to compare Reagan's economic record with say, the current POTUS?

I was not making comparisons in any way shape or form so I don't understand why you would make such a statement. I was commenting on Winepushers statement that Reagan was correct 90+% of the time while in his same post he said he was not familiar with the mans policies.

He didn't say that, he said he wasn't familiar with Reagan's immigration policies.

Would you care to explain how someone can make such a definitive statement while at the same time not even being aware of what they are talking about and admitting it all at the same time?

Would you care to retract your false statement about Winepusher?

I understand this is just another example of your penchant for demonizing democrats

That's funny coming from your and your unvarying attitude towards conservatives.

however if you would actually look at the historical record it would be more accurate to blame Harding if you are bound and determined to lay blame.

I'm not, you're the one bringing up unrelated periods as if they were related.

During his administration he helped prevent some twenty million russians from starving to death and incidentally prevented the Bolshevik revolution from collapsing due to famine.

Non sequitor.

Your solution requires cooperation from the Mexican government which in the present time is not likely to be forthcoming. This solution of yours resulted in just over a million deportations in eight years

From a much smaller pool of illegals compared to today.

while Obama in his first four years deported over 1.5 million illegals.

I noticed you dodged my point about Obama preventing AZ from deporting illegals.

[10CC]

Do you think that the native americans should have a say in which immigrants and descendants of immigrants are allowed to stay?

[Wyvern]

How can you say he was right about anything when you just freely admitted to not being familiar with his policies? You are aware I hope that he was responsible for a massive tax cut along with an equally massive tax hike in other areas? Or that the way he pulled the nation out of what was called stagflation at the time was to massively increase government spending?

You really want to compare Reagan's economic record with say, the current POTUS?

I was not making comparisons in any way shape or form so I don't understand why you would make such a statement. I was commenting on Winepushers statement that Reagan was correct 90+% of the time while in his same post he said he was not familiar with the mans policies.

He didn't say that, he said he wasn't familiar with Reagan's immigration policies.

I'm sure WP is more than capable of speaking for himself. If a person admits no knowledge of one aspect of a presidents policies why would you assume he has perfect knowledge of every other policy he has which is what would be required for his statement to be correct?

Would you care to explain how someone can make such a definitive statement while at the same time not even being aware of what they are talking about and admitting it all at the same time?

Would you care to retract your false statement about Winepusher?

WP has made no such request nor has he demonstrated any in depth knowledge of the remainder of Reagans policies. I will gladly retract my statement if you can show this to be the case but as things stand after nearly two months such has not occurred.

I understand this is just another example of your penchant for demonizing democrats

That's funny coming from your and your unvarying attitude towards conservatives.

I have no problem with conservatives and in fact am very fiscally conservative myself. Not to mention it is you not me that decided to bring partisanship into this conversation.

however if you would actually look at the historical record it would be more accurate to blame Harding if you are bound and determined to lay blame.

I'm not, you're the one bringing up unrelated periods as if they were related.

Actually you are the one that thought you were being smart by bringing up an unrelated period. All I did was bring up some of Reagans policies which WP was apparantly unaware of.

During his administration he helped prevent some twenty million russians from starving to death and incidentally prevented the Bolshevik revolution from collapsing due to famine.

Non sequitor.

Yes I agree, your bringing up a specious claim about FDR and the cold war was a non sequiter.

Your solution requires cooperation from the Mexican government which in the present time is not likely to be forthcoming. This solution of yours resulted in just over a million deportations in eight years

From a much smaller pool of illegals compared to today.

The current population is approximately three times what it was back then just as Obama's deportation figures is also approximately three times that of your solutions not to mention you have not explained how you are going to get the cooperation of the Mexican government which your solution requires.

while Obama in his first four years deported over 1.5 million illegals.

I noticed you dodged my point about Obama preventing AZ from deporting illegals.

I did no such thing, I assumed you knew that the regulation of international immigration regardless of the legality is a federal function.