Sexuality & Orientation: A question.

[marketandchurch]

This is a question I am very curious about, vis-a-vis the Christian/Muslim/Jew crowd. But atheists are welcome to chime in as well. Do you think sexuality is fixed?

If you think sexuality is fixed, what is your own personal explanation for the existence of other sexualities? Are there several possibilities vis-a-vis orientation, for the human creature? And by fixed nature, what do you believe is the strength of that rigidity?

Do you think it is somewhat of a spectrum wherein there are most of us, who have a fixed heterosexual orientation, a small group who have a fixed homosexual orientation, and an even tinier portion who are "confused," have multiple sexual identities, or no sexual identity at all?

In other words, please explain your view of the matter in full, and I would love to just get a cross-section of where Christians/Muslim/Jew are on the matter. It is incredibly helpful, because the premise we hold will frame the way we approach the issue of same-sex marriage.

Feel free to expand this to the greater Gay-Marriage debate if you wish, so long as it relates to gender, sexual orientation, and its affects on the society at large.

[charles_hamm]

[Replying to post 341 by charles_hamm] That's certainly a long winded way to say you haven't any evidence to support your conjectures and prejudices.

As I said, you have to provide the evidence not me. You claim these things are set from birth. You claim they can't be changed. You need to provide what controls them. What gene determines them? Is it a defective gene? Until then I must take it that you are dodging my request for proof because you have none.

The evidence is the millions of personal testimonials of homosexuals and intersexes who say you're wrong, and that's good enough for me. What you say is totally irrelevant to me unless you can present evidence to support your conjectures and prejudices.

I did a quick search on Google and found at least 50 testimonies of people who had chosen to become heterosexual in the first three pages. Unless you can prove them wrong, what you say is only an opinion and simply can't be accepted as fact.

So what, I prefer to believe the testimonials of the millions who disagree.

Just like changing gender identity and sexual orientation, it's a choice. You are welcome to ignore those who disagree with your opinion all you like.

[charles_hamm]

[Replying to post 341 by charles_hamm] That's certainly a long winded way to say you haven't any evidence to support your conjectures and prejudices.

As I said, you have to provide the evidence not me. You claim these things are set from birth. You claim they can't be changed. You need to provide what controls them. What gene determines them? Is it a defective gene? Until then I must take it that you are dodging my request for proof because you have none.

The evidence is the millions of personal testimonials of homosexuals and intersexes who say you're wrong, and that's good enough for me. What you say is totally irrelevant to me unless you can present evidence to support your conjectures and prejudices.

I did a quick search on Google and found at least 50 testimonies of people who had chosen to become heterosexual in the first three pages. Unless you can prove them wrong, what you say is only an opinion and simply can't be accepted as fact.

So what, I prefer to believe the testimonials of the millions who disagree. But there are some who even believe that Jesus magically produced 600 litres of quality wine from water.

Your point with the wine from water is... I believe that nobody has proven that He didn't.

[mitty]

[Replying to post 341 by charles_hamm] That's certainly a long winded way to say you haven't any evidence to support your conjectures and prejudices.

As I said, you have to provide the evidence not me. You claim these things are set from birth. You claim they can't be changed. You need to provide what controls them. What gene determines them? Is it a defective gene? Until then I must take it that you are dodging my request for proof because you have none.

The evidence is the millions of personal testimonials of homosexuals and intersexes who say you're wrong, and that's good enough for me. What you say is totally irrelevant to me unless you can present evidence to support your conjectures and prejudices.

I did a quick search on Google and found at least 50 testimonies of people who had chosen to become heterosexual in the first three pages. Unless you can prove them wrong, what you say is only an opinion and simply can't be accepted as fact.

So what, I prefer to believe the testimonials of the millions who disagree.

Just like changing gender identity and sexual orientation, it's a choice. You are welcome to ignore those who disagree with your opinion all you like.

Sigh!!!

[mitty]

[Replying to post 341 by charles_hamm] So what, I prefer to believe the testimonials of the millions who disagree. But there are some who even believe that Jesus magically produced 600 litres of quality wine from water.

Your point with the wine from water is... I believe that nobody has proven that He didn't.

And nobody has proved that pigs can't fly. And if Jesus could transmute oxygen atoms into the carbon atoms in ethanol, why didn't Jesus teach the alchemists how to transmute lead into gold and thus avoiding their unsuccessful life-time's work:whistle:

[charles_hamm]

[Replying to post 341 by charles_hamm] So what, I prefer to believe the testimonials of the millions who disagree. But there are some who even believe that Jesus magically produced 600 litres of quality wine from water.

Your point with the wine from water is... I believe that nobody has proven that He didn't.

And nobody has proved that pigs can't fly. And if Jesus could transmute oxygen atoms into the carbon atoms in ethanol, why didn't Jesus teach the alchemists how to transmute lead into gold and thus avoiding their unsuccessful life-time's work:whistle:

Why would He? It seems to me you are comparing apples and oranges.

[mitty]

[Replying to post 341 by charles_hamm] So what, I prefer to believe the testimonials of the millions who disagree. But there are some who even believe that Jesus magically produced 600 litres of quality wine from water.

Your point with the wine from water is... I believe that nobody has proven that He didn't.

And nobody has proved that pigs can't fly. And if Jesus could transmute oxygen atoms into the carbon atoms in ethanol, why didn't Jesus teach the alchemists how to transmute lead into gold and thus avoiding their unsuccessful life-time's work:whistle:

Why would He? It seems to me you are comparing apples and oranges.

So he was more interested in getting hopelessly drunk with his boozey mates. Fair enough, I guess he had his priorities right as others commented on (Matt 11:19).

[Ooberman]

Indeed... While Jesus was imparting wisdom, he apparently forgot to tell us what we could do to avoid cancer, avoid mental illness, avoid war, which political system was most advantageous, whether we should use birth control or not, etc...


Instead he gives us bland platitudes.

One mention of bacteria, or how to make aspirin, or SOMETHING would have gone a long way in establishing his credibility.

One mention of the Oriental flea could have saved hundreds of millions of people, yet, instead, his representatives used it to scare people into religion.

I'm sorry, if Jesus WAS God, he was a major dick.

[charles_hamm]

[Replying to post 341 by charles_hamm] So what, I prefer to believe the testimonials of the millions who disagree. But there are some who even believe that Jesus magically produced 600 litres of quality wine from water.

Your point with the wine from water is... I believe that nobody has proven that He didn't.

And nobody has proved that pigs can't fly. And if Jesus could transmute oxygen atoms into the carbon atoms in ethanol, why didn't Jesus teach the alchemists how to transmute lead into gold and thus avoiding their unsuccessful life-time's work:whistle:

Why would He? It seems to me you are comparing apples and oranges.

So he was more interested in getting hopelessly drunk with his boozey mates. Fair enough, I guess he had his priorities right as others commented on (Matt 11:19).

The 'others' you talked about were acting like children according to the verses preceding 11:19. They had also complained that John the Baptist did not eat or drink. They sound like a bunch of children to me.

[charles_hamm]

Indeed... While Jesus was imparting wisdom, he apparently forgot to tell us what we could do to avoid cancer, avoid mental illness, avoid war, which political system was most advantageous, whether we should use birth control or not, etc...


Instead he gives us bland platitudes.

One mention of bacteria, or how to make aspirin, or SOMETHING would have gone a long way in establishing his credibility.

One mention of the Oriental flea could have saved hundreds of millions of people, yet, instead, his representatives used it to scare people into religion.

I'm sorry, if Jesus WAS God, he was a major dick.

So telling the world how to avoid eternal damnation was not enough? I guess He probably considered telling people how to go to Heaven more important than explaining how to get over a headache.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe He was more worried about providing people with a way to Heaven than a quick fix to a temporary problem?

[bluethread]

Indeed... While Jesus was imparting wisdom, he apparently forgot to tell us what we could do to avoid cancer, avoid mental illness, avoid war, which political system was most advantageous, whether we should use birth control or not, etc...


Instead he gives us bland platitudes.

One mention of bacteria, or how to make aspirin, or SOMETHING would have gone a long way in establishing his credibility.

One mention of the Oriental flea could have saved hundreds of millions of people, yet, instead, his representatives used it to scare people into religion.

I'm sorry, if Jesus WAS God, he was a major dick.

Yeshua says that a wicked and adulterous generation seeks signs. That is because there is no end to it. No matter how much is revealed there is always something else that can be revealed. Those who wish to justify their actions will invariably point to what is not known rather than addressing what is known. I presume you also think that doctors are immoral because they charge for their services and do not do more than they already do.