Illegal Immigration

[The Persnickety Platypus]

Funny. It appears as if the unregulated free market embraced by today's religious right DOES have it's limitations.

When a greedy CEO decides to cut health care benefits for minimum wage workers in order to further engorge his profits, that's perfectly legit. But when a foreign laborer willing to work twice as hard for half the pay gets hired over you, THEN WE HAVE AN OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE!

I'm tired of all the capitalist pigs complaining about losing jobs to Hispanics. This is the form of society you have embraced. Now you get to deal with the competition it entails.




Here's an idea: force companies to pay all workers the same wages, and there is no incentive to hire the immigrant over your average blue collar worker. Problem solved.

Is it really this simple, or am I just missing something?

What is the purpose of the complex naturalization process? I always thought America was the land of opportunity. Suddenly it has become an exclusive membership club. We assert the joys of a free market all over the world, but wish to deny certain groups of people these same rights on the home front.

Another idea. Enter the borders- BAM, your a citizen. Screw the little aptitude tests.

Would this cause any signifigant economic backlashes? The workforce would be no more saturated than it all ready is, right? I'm asking you guys... I'm no economist.



Please share your ideas and solutions.

[1John2_26]

Quote:
12-million is a staggering amount of people to have to pay for.

Why ruin America? Why cause "it" to become a country that cannot take care of its people? it is because of foreigners - that is what these "illegal" aliens are - that our hospitals are in crisis over.

Luke 3:11
The man with two tunics should share with him who has none, and the one who has food should do the same

Rom 12:13
Share what you have with those who are in need. Be hospitable.

Heb 13:16
Don't forget to do good things for others and to share what you have with them. These are the kinds of sacrifices that please God.



Until you have come to understand the meaning of these verses, I request that you never preach "Biblical accuracy" to me again.

I have never preached to you. I also do not work for the Miricle Ear company. Deafness is not my bag.

I live all of the above. BUT, if a person has fourteen coats how does he give another one to 62,000 other people?

You are all for socialism but the system sucks. All it does is create drug and porn addicts and unwed mothers. The numbers of people putting into the system is LIMITED.

You need to see that reality is against the side of the bleeding-heart liberal hypocrites with an agenda they are willingly hiding.

"There will be poor always." Jesus, when he was around thirty-three years old. An age when reality sets in.


No preaching at all. "From me."

[Cephus]

Recently I read a story depicting an illegal immigrant who was making $360 a week in the US, as opposed to $80 back in Mexico (well below the poverty line).

Both of which are well below the poverty line, but since the cost of living is much higher in the US, the illegal really isn't doing all that much better by being here.

A clever way to re-word racism.

No, more like a clever way to play the race card. No one is forcing hispanics to cross the border illegally. It isn't like there's anyone in Mexico holding a gun to their heads and marching them across. Except Vincente Fox, of course, but I don't know if you want to call him a racist.

[The Persnickety Platypus]

I live all of the above. BUT, if a person has fourteen coats how does he give another one to 62,000 other people?

I don't think anyone is asking you to single handedly provide for every Mexican entering the country.

Between the 300 million registered American citizens, a coat seam might be the most you would be required to give to support any plausible new immigrant influx. Assuming that instating universal citizenship wouldn't pay for itself, of course.

The numbers of people putting into the system is LIMITED.

Not in America.

300 million citizens.
256 billionaires.
Trillions of dollars on the military budget ALONE.

Bill Gate's net worth surpasses Russia's annual budget. Realisticly, we could tax just him and be able to compensate all 12 million illegal immigrants (and still have money left over to build a few more nuclear warheads).

Higher taxes/redistribution wouldn't work in America? Not an easy claim to make when half of your co-workers are driving Lincoln Navigators to work.

You are all for socialism but the system sucks. All it does is create drug and porn addicts and unwed mothers.

US policy has proven pretty sufficient at this.

US sex statistics in comparison to European welfare states

US drug use compared to socialist Europe

Both of which are well below the poverty line, but since the cost of living is much higher in the US, the illegal really isn't doing all that much better by being here.

Which explains why they are risking life and limb to cross over (often multiple times a year).

There cannot be a 200% inflation difference between the US and Mexico, the enormous wage disparity is undeniable.

Around 50% of most immigrant's wages are sent back to their family's in Mexico. Imagine scarcely being able to feed your children, and then having your family income increase by a factor of three by sending your son to hammer nails in Arizona.

One or more relatives living 3,000 miles away from the family for years at a time, risking prison time or death. It must be good.

No, more like a clever way to play the race card.

Oh? So there would be just as much opposition if a slew of well-to-do middle class English speaking white men from Canada started pouring in our borders?

One person in this thread referred to Mexicans as "human cockroaches". You can't possibly tell me that race has no bearing in this anti-immigration sentiment.

A petition that might interest some of you:
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/homosexicans

It's goal is to get 10,000 signees. Shouldn't be too hard. I'll check back tomarrow.

[Cephus]

I don't think anyone is asking you to single handedly provide for every Mexican entering the country.

And then you say...

Bill Gate's net worth surpasses Russia's annual budget. Realisticly, we could tax just him and be able to compensate all 12 million illegal immigrants (and still have money left over to build a few more nuclear warheads).

Make up your mind.

[The Persnickety Platypus]

Is 1John Bill Gates?

If so, then I suppose he could pay the health care and education requirements of all 12 million immigrants.

But taking into account the 1:6,500,000,000 odds, I am sure you will forgive me for assuming the contrary.



On another note, If you guys don't want to pay a few extra cents a year in taxes, I do have another plan.

We could enslave our nations 256 billionaires and force them to provide education and welfare for every single impoverished citizen the world over. The money left over (and I assure you, there will be money left over) can be distributed amoung our dying middle class, who will then have enough capital to overthrow the corporate overlords controlling Congress.

But of course, no one in government will ever consider that course of action. It's too easy... too straightforward... too logical...

[Cephus]

Is 1John Bill Gates?

It doesn't really matter since I responded to you, not 1John.

If so, then I suppose he could pay the health care and education requirements of all 12 million immigrants.

Yes, he could but he's in no way, shape or form required to, which was the point. Just because Bill Gates has money doesn't mean that you get to decide how he spends it.

We could enslave our nations 256 billionaires and force them to provide education and welfare for every single impoverished citizen the world over. The money left over (and I assure you, there will be money left over) can be distributed amoung our dying middle class, who will then have enough capital to overthrow the corporate overlords controlling Congress.

How about we just enforce our immigration laws and stop the flood of illegals over the border? Makes a whole hell of a lot more sense to me.

But of course, no one in government will ever consider that course of action. It's too easy... too straightforward... too logical...

It's a lot less logical than just following the laws we already have on the books.

[ENIGMA]

We could enslave our nations 256 billionaires and force them to provide education and welfare for every single impoverished citizen the world over. The money left over (and I assure you, there will be money left over) can be distributed amoung our dying middle class, who will then have enough capital to overthrow the corporate overlords controlling Congress.

But of course, no one in government will ever consider that course of action. It's too easy... too straightforward... too logical...

Barring any ethical concerns of enslavement, let's look at the net result of this policy:

Assuming that the billionaires have an average net worth of 32 billion dollars a piece (a generous assumption on my part), then the amount of cash that can be gained from liquidating their assets (assuming no losses of value in the process, leaving them with $0 net worth) is 256 * 32 = 8192 billion dollars.

I would like to take this opportunity to point out that as a Computer Science major, yes powers of 2 do happen to come easily to mind.

Anyway, back on topic. $8 Trillion+ is a decent amount of money. It might even make a dent in the total US debt.

Now lets split the money evenly amongst the other 6.5 billion people:

8192 / 6.5 = $1260 per person

You sure this is enough as a one time payment (Liquidated all the billionaires' net worth to get this, can't do that more than once without people with financial ledgers looking at you funny) to do all the things you said?

Even if we exclude the next billion richest people from getting a part of the cash:

8192/5.5 = $1490 per person

... would still seem insufficient to make much of a dent in any of the issues describe never mind having a decent amount left over.

[The Persnickety Platypus]

It doesn't really matter since I responded to you, not 1John.

Okay. Am I Bill Gates?

Yes, he could but he's in no way, shape or form required to, which was the point.

Of course. But why?

What, is he more of a human being than the rest of us? Does he, through some convulted reasoning, deserve to wallow in his billions when there are millions out there who work *just* as hard, yet fail to adequately feed their familys?

Sorry, but I am not seeing how Bill's lake mansions and private trout streams are serving the greater good.

I have made this argument before, I will make it again. A doctor neglecting to provide a patient with adequate care when he had the resources to do so can be charged with homicide. This makes every millionaire a cold blooded murderer. Show me where I am wrong. The dictionary has got my back:

mur·der (mûrdr)
n.

(1) To kill brutally or inhumanly.
(2) To put an end to; destroy
(3) To spoil by ineptness

The rich are currently inept. Time to wake them up. A 50% increase in income taxes should do the trick. "Sorry kids, no six month vacation in Cancun this year."


The government could do something like this with a snap of the fingers, and get full public support from those who have yet to be brainwashed by this unlimited laissez fiere rubbish force-fed to us by the government elitists.

Of course, my hopes aren't high.

How about we just enforce our immigration laws and stop the flood of illegals over the border?

Because this would be:

- Racist
- Nationalist
- Selfish
- Narrowminded
- Prejudiced
- Arbitrary
- Sanctimonious
- Hypocritical
- Fulsome
- Pious
- Elitist
- Oppressive

And (sadly) the worst of all,

- American



One adjective could not have sufficiently expressed my incredible distaste for our current immigration laws (much less some of the recent, even more moronic proposals).

The basic argument is always (at base value) something like this:

"You have no right to build yourself a better life. Our ansestors beat you to it, and we pampered arses are not obligated to move over and make room for a few more hardworking individuals chasing the American Dream. I'll be damned if I pay a few more cents a year in taxes just so you can feed your children!"


Unbelievable. It's like the Mexicans are actually trying to displace jobs.




I have officially given up on humanity.

[The Persnickety Platypus]

Assuming that the billionaires have an average net worth of 32 billion dollars a piece (a generous assumption on my part), then the amount of cash that can be gained from liquidating their assets (assuming no losses of value in the process, leaving them with $0 net worth) is 256 * 32 = 8192 billion dollars.

I would like to take this opportunity to point out that as a Computer Science major, yes powers of 2 do happen to come easily to mind.

Anyway, back on topic. $8 Trillion+ is a decent amount of money. It might even make a dent in the total US debt.

Now lets split the money evenly amongst the other 6.5 billion people:

8192 / 6.5 = $1260 per person

$1260 per person.


Are those numbers right? This is amazing. 256 lonely persons have enough wealth to support every solitary human being on the planet.

By the way, yes, this amount is well enough to lift every citizen of the globe out of poverty. Keep in mind, 1/6 of the human population lives on less than a dollar a day. $200 or so would be plenty to sustain such people through one year. Also, we wouldn't have to pay for all 6.5 billion people on the planet. Only around three billion of these live in true financial strife.

Some more fun facts:

- Each year over 8 million people die because they are simply too poor to stay alive.
- More than 800 million people go hungry every day.
- The gross domestic product of the poorest 48 nations is less than the wealth of the world's three richest people.
- Thirty-thousand children die every day due to hunger and treatable illnesses.
- 6 million children die every year before their fifth birthday, as a result of malnutrition.

I was not exaggerating when I said that Bill Gates could single handedly lift sub-saharran Africa out of poverty. The world's vast wealth inequality is beyond comprehension.

Refiguring my modifications into your calculations, we would probably come back out with $2500 to $3000 for each person. That is more money than half the worlds workers will see in their entire life.

Everyone acts like ending poverty is such a giant task. It's not. Bill and company have the goods- they just don't want to share.

For a cursory glance at my redistribution plan (which has been concocted on the off-chance that I one day become the supreme world ruler, which would be the minimum amount of power required to pry open the upper-class' greedy paws), I advocate supplying citizens with roughly twice the amount needed to sustain a comfortable life (half of which is intended as starting capital), and invest the rest in education/development programs in an attempt at achieving self-sufficiency. Simple enough.

Barring any ethical concerns of enslavement

We don't have to enslave them, of course.

If a less rash course of action is what you want, we could simply tax the crap out of the upper 10% and get the same amount. Maybe we'll only take 99% of Bill's income (which would still leave him with millions).

[ENIGMA]

Assuming that the billionaires have an average net worth of 32 billion dollars a piece (a generous assumption on my part), then the amount of cash that can be gained from liquidating their assets (assuming no losses of value in the process, leaving them with $0 net worth) is 256 * 32 = 8192 billion dollars.

I would like to take this opportunity to point out that as a Computer Science major, yes powers of 2 do happen to come easily to mind.

Anyway, back on topic. $8 Trillion+ is a decent amount of money. It might even make a dent in the total US debt.

Now lets split the money evenly amongst the other 6.5 billion people:

8192 / 6.5 = $1260 per person

$1260 per person.


Are those numbers right? This is amazing. 256 lonely persons have enough wealth to support every solitary human being on the planet.

Actually that generous guesstimate of mine was off by an order of magnitude. After a quick search:

List of Billionaires

The average net worth listed for billionaires worldwide was $3.3 billion.

Just for another generous estimate and easy calculation on my part, assume that the average for the 256 US Billionaires is $4 Billion.

256 * 4 = $1024 Billion

Not quite so much now. If I'm not mistaken, the US Congress sees and allocates more tax revenue in a year. Perhaps a better course would be to control your congressional representatives than the billionaires.

Anyway, running the numbers:

By the way, yes, this amount is well enough to lift every citizen of the globe out of poverty. Keep in mind, 1/6 of the human population lives on less than a dollar a day. $200 or so would be plenty to sustain such people through one year. Also, we wouldn't have to pay for all 6.5 billion people on the planet. Only around three billion of these live in true financial strife.

1024/3=$341.3 per person

For a cursory glance at my redistribution plan (which has been concocted on the off-chance that I one day become the supreme world ruler, which would be the minimum amount of power required to pry open the upper-class' greedy paws), I advocate supplying citizens with roughly twice the amount needed to sustain a comfortable life (half of which is intended as starting capital), and invest the rest in education/development programs in an attempt at achieving self-sufficiency. Simple enough.

So, assuming that you convince Congress to give an independent grant for education/development and for providing all 3 billion citizens with matching starting capital, taking all of the money of the 256 US billionaires will allow these people to live comfortably for about a year and a half (Assuming no inflation of cost of living expenses in the local economy).

What happens at the start of year 3?