God Favors Slavery!

CJK · Post by **CJK** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:47 am

"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: You may buy your male and female slaves from the nations that are round about you ... You may bequeath them to your sons after you, to inherit as a possession forever." Leviticus 25:44-46

The slaver holders being the upstanding followers of a sadistic God, and the slaves the sub-human heathens.

How interesting.

"When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, he shall not be punished: for the slave is his money." Exodus 21:20

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:00 am

Paul, called as an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, to the church of God which is at Corinth wrote:Were you called while a slave? Do not worry about it; but if you are able also to become free, rather do that.

Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, to the saints who are at Ephesus wrote:Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ; not by way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. With good will render service, as to the Lord, and not to men, knowing that whatever good thing each one does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether slave or free. And masters, do the same things to them, and give up threatening, knowing that both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him.

Is there a question for debate? The point is made rather plainly and clearly in Christian scripture. Have you not noticed it before? Are there any Christians who deny this rather unambiguous teaching?

CJK · Post by **CJK** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:06 am

My apologies McCulloch. You can delete the post if you like.

1John2_26 · Post by **1John2_26** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:18 am

Unambiguous?

That may be the hidden reason for this thread. It'll pop up soon.

Christians have been dealing with this without any problems. "Christian Slavery" that is. Seems that freedom is the key.

Let's see what the "Apostle" Paul had to say. He was a Christian that lived a long, long time ago. The "first century" actually.

Philemon 1
1 Paul, a prisoner of Christ Jesus, and Timothy our brother,

To Philemon our dear friend and fellow worker, 2to Apphia our sister, to Archippus our fellow soldier and to the church that meets in your home:

3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Thanksgiving and Prayer
4 I always thank my God as I remember you in my prayers, 5 because I hear about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints. 6 I pray that you may be active in sharing your faith, so that you will have a full understanding of every good thing we have in Christ. 7 Your love has given me great joy and encouragement, because you, brother, have refreshed the hearts of the saints.

Paul's Plea for Onesimus

8 Therefore, although in Christ I could be bold and order you to do what you ought to do, 9 yet I appeal to you on the basis of love. I then, as Paul—an old man and now also a prisoner of Christ Jesus— 10 I appeal to you for my son Onesimus,[a] who became my son while I was in chains. 11 Formerly he was useless to you, but now he has become useful both to you and to me.

12 I am sending him—who is my very heart—back to you. 13 I would have liked to keep him with me so that he could take your place in helping me while I am in chains for the gospel.

14 But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that any favor you do will be spontaneous and not forced.

15 Perhaps the reason he was separated from you for a little while was that you might have him back for good— 16 no longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother. He is very dear to me but even dearer to you, both as a man and as a brother in the Lord.
17 So if you consider me a partner, welcome him as you would welcome me. 18If he has done you any wrong or owes you anything, charge it to me. 19 I, Paul, am writing this with my own hand. I will pay it back—not to mention that you owe me your very self. 20 I do wish, brother, that I may have some benefit from you in the Lord; refresh my heart in Christ. 21 Confident of your obedience, I write to you, knowing that you will do even more than I ask.

22 And one thing more: Prepare a guest room for me, because I hope to be restored to you in answer to your prayers.

23 Epaphras, my fellow prisoner in Christ Jesus, sends you greetings. 24 And so do Mark, Aristarchus, Demas and Luke, my fellow workers.

25 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.

Lotan · Post by **Lotan** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:45 am

McCulloch wrote:The point is made rather plainly and clearly in Christian scripture.

I'm afraid (really afraid) that I have to go with 1John2_26 on this one.

The Pauline view of slavery is best expressed as follows...

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28

IOW, all Christians are equal in God's sight. That's why Paul doesn't simply order Philemon to release Onesimus, but only strongly suggests that he should.
Those NT texts that appear to support inequality are either from pseudonymous forgeries, or as in the case of 1Corinthians are considered (with some manuscript evidence) to be interpolated.

I'd like to point out as well that CJK's examples in the OP are both OT texts, not Christian.

CJK · Post by **CJK** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:49 am

Ok, so the message I am getting is that it is well known there is nothing ambiguous about Christian doctrine advocating the use of slavery, as it is a part of God's little game in seeing that the true believers go to heaven. It sounds just like any other silly little myth attempting to justify the way things are.

CJK · Post by **CJK** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:57 am

I'd like to point out as well that CJK's examples in the OP are both OT texts, not Christian.

If the OT is not Christian, then what is it? And why is it in the Christian bible?

Christians have been dealing with this without any problems. "Christian Slavery" that is. Seems that freedom is the key.

That is like proclaiming that God put fossils on this earth in order to 'test' man's faith in God. Utterly contemptuous for the objective reality which clearly states otherwise.

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:59 am

McCulloch wrote:The point is made rather plainly and clearly in Christian scripture.

Lotan wrote:I'm afraid (really afraid) that I have to go with 1John2_26 on this one.
The Pauline view of slavery is best expressed as follows...
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28
IOW, all Christians are equal in God's sight. That's why Paul doesn't simply order Philemon to release Onesimus, but only strongly suggests that he should.
Those NT texts that appear to support inequality are either from pseudonymous forgeries, or as in the case of 1Corinthians are considered (with some manuscript evidence) to be interpolated.
I'd like to point out as well that CJK's examples in the OP are both OT texts, not Christian.

Certainly, the NT teaches that all are equal in God's sight. But Greeks do not cease to be Greeks, slaves do not cease to be slaves, free men do not cease to be free, males do not cease to be male and females do not cease to be female in Christ, do they?
Paul does not order the release of Onesimus because Christianity does not forbid slavery. He does however strongly suggest it, as a personal favour. Paul does not order celibacy, but he does strongly suggest it.
If the NT texts which support inequality are forgeries or interpolations, how many Christian denominations have excluded them from the canon?

With regard to OT an NT, does not the OT refer to the same God as the NT? Do Christians automatically disregard everything in the OT? Certainly, Christian theology includes the concept of different rules from God applying to different dispensations, but certainly the rules given by God to the Jews could not be considered unjust and unfair if their source is the God of Love. There is no place in the NT where slavery is expressly forbidden. If I am wrong, please cite an example. There are places in the canonically accepted, revealed from God, New Testament which implies that slavery is not to be done away with under Christianity. These passages may be forgeries or interpolations, but they still constitute the core holy scriptures of Christianity.

Lotan · Post by **Lotan** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:00 pm

CJK wrote:Ok, so the message I am getting is that it is well known there is nothing ambiguous about Christian doctrine advocating the use of slavery, as it is a part of God's little game in seeing that the true believers go to heaven.

Not from me, you're not.

CJK wrote:If the OT is not Christian, then what is it? And why is it in the Christian bible?

You know as well as I do that Christians feel justified to ignore the laws of the OT on the basis of Jesus fulfilling the law (or whatever). Christians don't need to be circumcised for example. According to Paul, all Christians are equal, so they shouldn't hold slaves. I'm not a Christian apologist, I'm just pointing this out.

McCulloch wrote:Certainly, the NT teaches that all are equal in God's sight. But Greeks do not cease to be Greeks, slaves do not cease to be slaves, free men do not cease to be free, males do not cease to be male and females do not cease to be female in Christ, do they?

"...you are all one in Christ Jesus."
Greeks and Jews can be equals.
Men and women can be equals (radically egalitarian in the 1st century Roman empire!).
Slaves and masters by definition, cannot be equals. There is only one master in Christianity, after all.

McCulloch wrote:Paul does not order the release of Onesimus because Christianity does not forbid slavery.

No. Paul does not order the release of Onesimus because as a fellow Christian, and therefore Philemon's equal, he has no authority to do so.

McCulloch wrote:He does however strongly suggest it, as a personal favour.

Yes. He can instruct Philemon, but it would send the wrong message if he just told him to do it.

McCulloch wrote:If the NT texts which support inequality are forgeries or interpolations, how many Christian denominations have excluded them from the canon?

I don't know. I would guess it's close to none, or about the same as other known forged and altered texts. It's unlikely that a message of unrestricted equality would have sold well in a culture based on patronage, so it's no surprise that later author/editors watered down that part of the Christian message.

McCulloch wrote:With regard to OT an NT, does not the OT refer to the same God as the NT?

The OT refers to several gods (YHWH, El, god of Abraham, god of Moses, etc.). By the end of the story he's just one God, and is also the God of the NT. Jesus is not the god of most of the NT as far as I'm concerned, but that's a different story.

McCulloch wrote:Do Christians automatically disregard everything in the OT?

Ask them. I think they like to mix and match according to their personal tastes.

McCulloch wrote:There is no place in the NT where slavery is expressly forbidden. If I am wrong, please cite an example.

Sure it is...
You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
...it's just a matter of interpretation.

McCulloch wrote:There are places in the canonically accepted, revealed from God, New Testament which implies that slavery is not to be done away with under Christianity. These passages may be forgeries or interpolations, but they still constitute the core holy scriptures of Christianity.

Yeah well, what are you gonna do? 'Canonical and accepted' don't necessarily equal 'original and authentic'. I don't think that Christian equality had any more chance of success in the first century than it does in the twenty-first.

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:37 pm

McCulloch wrote:Paul does not order the release of Onesimus because Christianity does not forbid slavery.

Lotan wrote:No. Paul does not order the release of Onesimus because as a fellow Christian, and therefore Philemon's equal, he has no authority to do so.

Paul, a prisoner of Christ Jesus, and Timothy our brother, to Philemon wrote:Therefore, though I have enough confidence in Christ to order you to do what is proper, yet for love's sake I rather appeal to you- ...