How important is the protection of Religious freedom?

youngborean · Post by **youngborean** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:14 pm

Outcry rises over Afghan Christian convert

Very interesting story. Sharia law prescribes execution for converts, Western ideals say that no one should be persecuted for religious beliefs. So whose freedom to practice religion is more important (the west or the pro-Sharia Muslims)? And if we elect to support religious freedom should this pressure be applied to all regions where Sharia law exists (Iran, etc.)? Self-determination is more complicated than anyone imagined.

1John2_26 · Post by **1John2_26** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:22 am

1John2_26 wrote:
I'm hoping that Rahman becomes a speaker here in America and Afghanistan sinks completely into the abyss of evil that it truly is.

I see that you exemplify your Lord's attitude towards his enemies, again!

There is a lot of dust in Afghanistan. Jesus even said it would be better for Sodom and Gomorrah on the Day of Judgment than for places like Afghanistan.

"For those who have eyes let them see. And for those that have ears let them hear."

Islam deafens its adherants. And even a secularist can "see" that.

You should read another version of the New Testament. I suggest the New Living Translation. Nothing changed just modern words used. The Skeptic's Annotated Version is inept at teaching Biblical truth and accuracy. As is the Qur'an.

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:34 am

1John2_26 wrote:You should read another version of the New Testament. I suggest the New Living Translation. Nothing changed just modern words used. The Skeptic's Annotated Version is inept at teaching Biblical truth and accuracy.

I generally use the New American Standard Bible.

Question for Bible readers .

1John2_26 · Post by **1John2_26** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:30 am

1John2_26 wrote:
You should read another version of the New Testament. I suggest the New Living Translation. Nothing changed just modern words used. The Skeptic's Annotated Version is inept at teaching Biblical truth and accuracy.

I generally use the New American Standard Bible.

Good version. Then you know that evangelism goes only so far. Then you shake the dust from your feet and move onto the next place. If they listen and accept good. If not, well you know the rest.

Afghanistan is a cesspool for a reason. And it is not because of Born-Again Christians building incredible Universities, Hospitals, or, allowing for people to use them that oppose Christianity.

Muslims are the people living in Afghanistan in what 98% of the population?

Christian women covered head to toe in any city in the US? Any Christian suicide bombers?

Now, if Arabs (or whatever Afghani's are comprised of) read the NASB . . . those that weren't beheaded would know the Gospel.

Cephus · Post by **Cephus** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:44 am

1John2_26 wrote:We die so that others may live free. European and Islamic people's just let others die.

No, we die so we can force others to live the way we think they ought to. Apparently, in the Middle East, this doesn't work very well, they're not interested in what we want them to do and the second they get a chance to get out from under our oppressive thumb, they have no problem doing things their own way.

What right do we have to tell them otherwise?

Cephus · Post by **Cephus** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:50 am

micatala wrote:So, I take it you view Lincoln's decision to fight secession as the US 'running around and imposing our views on everyone else.' You would be OK with letting the South secede and perpetuate slavery, even to this day?

There's a big difference between your own country where you have legal authority and another country entirely where you have to impose your will against an independent and soverign nation.

Sure, I can read in between the lines that you don't think the U.S. government really cares one bit about human rights elsewhere, only the government's perceived political interests, and this is a valid criticism to make. However, that does not mean that the right thing to do in the present circumstance is simply say 'well, that's what they want to do so I guess we just let them do it and don't say a word.'

Whether we care about human rights or not, it isn't our job or business to go in and impose our will on other people and other cultures, especially if we have not been asked to do so by the people. It's one thing when we're begged by others to get involved, it's certainly another when we, of our own volition, decide we know better than everyone else.

I'm not saying we take any drastic action, but I do think our government and our citizenry, yay even the citizenry of the whole civilized world, should speak out strongly and forcefully that the proposed execution of this individual would be a huge miscarriage of justice, that it would indicate clearly to the world the barbarism of those who agree with such a course of action, and that if Afghanistan wants to be respected within the international community, they need to back up and try again.

While I agree it's barbaric, let's be honest here. The guy broke the law. He KNEW he was breaking the law. This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. I think most things any religion does, be it Islam or Christianity, are barbaric and primitive, does that mean we should just stop religion from existing?

Actually, that's not such a bad idea.

1John2_26 · Post by **1John2_26** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:45 pm

Can't the garden-variety Atheist just say "I'm OK with killing Christians anytime, anywhere, anyhow?" If Rahman was trying to find his Broke Back buddy, the tone would be far different from the anti-Christ crowd.

In fact no war was threatened towards these Muslims obeying the Koran. Just some outcry fom the Christians in civilized countries in Europe and America.

After all, even Muslim's need money.

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:26 pm

Cephus wrote:There's a big difference between your own country where you have legal authority and another country entirely where you have to impose your will against an independent and soverign nation.

Didn't Kristallnacht and Rwanda teach us anything? There are principles that supersede national sovereignty. How about Universal Declaration of Human Rights?

Article 18. wrote:Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

Cephus wrote:While I agree it's barbaric, let's be honest here. The guy broke the law. He KNEW he was breaking the law. This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

But this implementation of sharia law is a violation of basic humans rights. It should be protested in the strongest possible way. The Afgan government simply does not have the right to execute anyone for becoming a Christian.

Cephus wrote:I think most things any religion does, be it Islam or Christianity, are barbaric and primitive, does that mean we should just stop religion from existing?
Actually, that's not such a bad idea.

If our methods are logic, persuasion and knowledge, I am with you. If your methods are intolerance and suppression of human rights, it is wrong.

Lotan · Post by **Lotan** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:39 pm

You mean Rahman isn't gay?

Off with his head!

juliod · Post by **juliod** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:19 pm

Didn't Kristallnacht and Rwanda teach us anything? There are principles that supersede national sovereignty. How about Universal Declaration of Human Rights?

You seem to be under a false impression. It is current US policy that there are no "principles that supercede national sovereignty". The US will not submit to any sort of international justice, nor will the US recognize any obligations under treaties or agreements.

Only atheists are interested in religious freedom. Religionists are only interested in foisting thier particular brand of lunacy on everyone else.

DanZ

palmera · Post by **palmera** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:25 pm

boy i'm really messing this editing up...