The evil of Liberalism

[McCulloch]

Liberals are not good people.

When did Liberalism become an evil thing? Is Liberalism evil? Shouldn't we all be a bit more liberal?

[WinePusher]

Liberals are not good people.

When did Liberalism become an evil thing? Is Liberalism evil? Shouldn't we all be a bit more liberal?

This is just one of your many problems. You're incapable of participating in one thread, and when somebody writes something you don't like you go and create a brand new topic using a quote that was written in the context of a larger discussion.

If you have a problem with what I wrote, why don't you challenge it in the thread it was written in. That way you can avoid creating any unnecessary confusion like you've done here. Since you were to lazy to do it, here is the full context of the discussion:

However, as I continue to point out. The War is over. Gays, Liberals and Good people all over the world won.

Hahaha. Liberals are not good people. Stop making stuff up.

So, unless you are incredibily obtuse, you can see that I was responding to a quote that implied that anybody who opposes gay marriage (religious conservatives) are not good people.

But to answer your question, some liberals are not good people, just like some conservatives aren't good people. I was responding to a blanketed statement, so I gave a general response.

[East of Eden]

McCulloch, by your standards a thread should be started asking if conservatives are not good people, which is what you implied.

[kayky]

It's not that liberals are good, and conservatives are bad. It's that liberals are right, and conservatives are wrong.

[WinePusher]

It's not that liberals are good, and conservatives are bad. It's that liberals are right, and conservatives are wrong.

Depends on how you define liberalism. In the classical sense of the term, liberalism was very much synonymous with modern libertarianism. Classical liberals advocated free markets, freedom and liberty, and small government. The so called liberals today have hijacked the term, and are in favor of nothing that classical liberals stood for. The 'liberals' today are instead statists, socialists and social sodomites. Contemporary liberalism has been a disaster wherever it is implemented, regardless of whether it's economic, social or foreign policy.

[kayky]

Depends on how you define liberalism. In the classical sense of the term, liberalism was very much synonymous with modern libertarianism. Classical liberals advocated free markets, freedom and liberty, and small government.

Since we are not living in Classical times, I think it might be best to stick with modern understandings of the terms. Personally, I prefer the term progressive to the term liberal.

The so called liberals today have hijacked the term, and are in favor of nothing that classical liberals stood for.[/i]

Well, that's a relief!

The 'liberals' today are instead statists, socialists and social sodomites. Contemporary liberalism has been a disaster wherever it is implemented, regardless of whether it's economic, social or foreign policy.

Wow. Disaster.. Sounds serious. But I am curious. What on earth is a social sodomite?

[WinePusher]

Depends on how you define liberalism. In the classical sense of the term, liberalism was very much synonymous with modern libertarianism. Classical liberals advocated free markets, freedom and liberty, and small government.

Since we are not living in Classical times, I think it might be best to stick with modern understandings of the terms. Personally, I prefer the term progressive to the term liberal.

The point is that the modern understanding of the term is incorrect. But I do think progressive is a better term than liberal.

The 'liberals' today are instead statists, socialists and social sodomites. Contemporary liberalism has been a disaster wherever it is implemented, regardless of whether it's economic, social or foreign policy.

Wow. Disaster.. Sounds serious. But I am curious. What on earth is a social sodomite?

Someone who sodomizes our society and culture. Examples would be of people who want unregulated abortions up to the time of live birth, and who want to deny babies medical care if they manage to survive the abortion. Or people who want open borders, or people who think hard narcotics that end up killing people and ruining lives should be legalized and sold on the mass market. Or people who think our justice system should be oriented towards rehabilitating violent criminals instead of punishing them and deterring other people from committing violent crimes.

[kayky]

Someone who sodomizes our society and culture.

I'm having a hard time figuring this metaphor out. Are you thinking of Sodom and Gommorah, perhaps? Acts or beliefs that might incur the wrath of God, in your opinion?

Examples would be of people who want unregulated abortions up to the time of live birth,

Since over 90% of abortions in the US occur in the first trimester, I'm not sure why you see this as a major issue. While exceptions can always be found, abortions performed later are done for medical reasons.

and who want to deny babies medical care if they manage to survive the abortion.

Considering the recent trial of an abortion doctor in Philadelphia for this very crime, it appears that such behavior is not tolerated in the US. You appear to be creating an issue that does not exist.

Or people who want open borders,

Can you name any public figures who advocate "open borders"?

or people who think hard narcotics that end up killing people and ruining lives should be legalized and sold on the mass market.

The only people I know of who advocate anything like this are libertarians such as Rand Paul. It does not seem likely to happen.

Or people who think our justice system should be oriented towards rehabilitating violent criminals instead of punishing them and deterring other people from committing violent crimes.

So even though the US has more prisons and prisoners than any other first world country on the planet and is one of the few who still implements the death penalty, you think we're just not tough enough?

It seems to me that you exist within a jungle of paper tigers.

[marketandchurch]

Liberals are not evil by their own definition of evil. Nor are they necessarily evil, by a more traditional definition of evil.

They do take issue with people who take a definitive position on morality, unless it comports/affirms Leftism. And they also have a lousy track-record of fighting true evil, and have serious issues with calling evil evil. Traditional notions of evil are too black-and-white for their "intellectual" palate, which is concerned with nuances and the supposed "gray." Traditional "Justice" and "Morality" does not capture the essence of most problems, for which their Social Sciences is here to clarify.

Unless it emanates from the conservative Right. As the bearers of that tradition, and the history it arose from, are, from their POV, the architects, defenders, and maintainers of the unjust constructs that perpetuate sexism, racism, classism, and environmental degradation.

[marketandchurch]

[Replying to post 8 by kayky]

1.) The sin of Sodom was not homosexuality.

2.) I would argue that it does not speak well that millions of abortions happen every year, purely out of convenience. Abortion, in America, and only a handful of other places, legally frame abortion in a pro-abortion language.

At least France, and most European nations, discourage it and do not disconnect the act of child-rearing from the community or from the family. They allow any woman to have an abortion within reasonable time limits, and the woman is fully in charge of whether or not she wants to have an abortion. But the state at least tries to reach out to the woman, on behalf of her community, and society as a whole, and let's her know that her actions have societal repercussions, and that there are many other alternatives to abortion. Such as adoption, or state-backed measures to help her through motherhood if her partner won't be around to father the child. It doesn't matter what time people have an abortion.

Time doesn't really determine the morality of an issue. It may contextualize the framework we argue it in, and that is important, but the millions of abortions that may take place this year could all take place within a week of conception, and it would still not bode well for out nation, that we abort 1,000,000 potential lives, every year, guilt-free. 1,000,000 potential Americans. What does that do to us? Parting with so many potential individuals, out of convenience, guilt-free... And I'm asking this as someone who doesn't worry so much for an aborted Fetus. It does not know pain. It does not know the life it hasn't lived.

3.) What would you say about the argument that pretty soon, the definition of viable may be the day of conception? With the rapid rise of technology, we will be getting to that level of medical prowess, before the next century.

4.) Open-boarders is a Liberal dream. If you are a liberal, and don't believe in such a concept, fine. But that doesn't mean that most Leftists don't dream about a future with no boarders. Something so arbitrary, yet so divisive, would have no place in the future utopia we construct, so it is an end-aim the Left has. Exporting and outsourcing judiciary, military, legislature, economic policy, etc, to an independent body, such as something akin to the UN, is a Left-wing dream.

5.) We don't kill enough people. Countries who have an Anti-captial punishment position are not elevated. Their position comports with their ideology of Leftism & their value of Secularism & Pacifism. If this life is all there is, and a life has already been lost, why loose another? This sort of thinking is what leads to murder imprisonment levels that are incredibly low. Because why punish someone for life, when we can rehabilitate them into a more elevated state where they are no longer a threat to anyone or themselves, and we can then allow them to get back into the action of life, in the only life we got. When you remove every smoke-screen that the Left has on capital punishment, it just amounts to a anti-punishment, period!