Churches Not Allowed to Rent Public School Place, Unions Can

[East of Eden]

http://www.humanevents.com/2012/02/10/b ... or-unions/

This is rightly being challenged. How is this endorsement when the churches are renting the space? If 70 worship communities of different faiths and Christian denominations are renting space, which one is being established? Does the NYC school system have so much money they can't use extra?

Anybody want to defend this?

[East of Eden]

I'd say 'kil;ing' or being willing to forcibly (by threat of violence) impose one's beliefs upon non-believers would be the extreme end.

Does this include the threat of eternal damnation or eternal oblivion? Or are we suppose to keep it light when the Bible warns us of Hell and God's wrath? It's just a big joke?

According to you, those two places don't exist, so what do you care?

[Ooberman]

I'd say 'kil;ing' or being willing to forcibly (by threat of violence) impose one's beliefs upon non-believers would be the extreme end.

Does this include the threat of eternal damnation or eternal oblivion? Or are we suppose to keep it light when the Bible warns us of Hell and God's wrath? It's just a big joke?

According to you, those two places don't exist, so what do you care?

So, if I threaten sending your family to my dungeon to be tortured forever if they don't do what I say... you'd find that just a funny joke?

After all, my dungeon doesn't exist.

However, you are talking about belief. You believe there is some kind of Hell, right? You do believe it when you say there is a Hell and God will use it? Right?


See, I'm not worried about Hell, I'm worried about your tactics to get me to fall in love with the same idea you have.

Just because you are persuaded by some fantasy doens't make that fantasy true.

It does, however, tell me a lot about your psychological make-up: you are a religious zealot if you ascribe to one religion, thick or thin. Or, you are a dangerous mystic... Right? After all, we don't even know what kind of supernatural world exists "out there" in yours and other theists "la la land in their brain.

For all we know, there is no supernatural world, or it could be a weak force in our lives, or it could be animism, or pantheism, or any number of religions...

By the time we've gotten to Christianity, we are rolling on the floor, asking you to stop the dog and pony show of your very specific and detailed Apologetic of the Bible when your sources are the minority view, and have no evidence to back up one shred of the important claims.

Miracles can't be tested, eh?

How convenient for people who want to use miracles to explain their religion, I say drollely.

I'd say 'kil;ing' or being willing to forcibly (by threat of violence) impose one's beliefs upon non-believers would be the extreme end.

Does this include the threat of eternal damnation or eternal oblivion? Or are we suppose to keep it light when the Bible warns us of Hell and God's wrath? It's just a big joke?

According to you, those two places don't exist, so what do you care?

So, if I threaten sending your family to my dungeon to be tortured forever if they don't do what I say... you'd find that just a funny joke?

After all, my dungeon doesn't exist.

However, you are talking about belief. You believe there is some kind of Hell, right? You do believe it when you say there is a Hell and God will use it? Right?


See, I'm not worried about Hell, I'm worried about your tactics to get me to fall in love with the same idea you have.

Just because you are persuaded by some fantasy doens't make that fantasy true.

It does, however, tell me a lot about your psychological make-up: you are a religious zealot if you ascribe to one religion, thick or thin. Or, you are a dangerous mystic... Right? After all, we don't even know what kind of supernatural world exists "out there" in yours and other theists "la la land in their brain.

For all we know, there is no supernatural world, or it could be a weak force in our lives, or it could be animism, or pantheism, or any number of religions...

By the time we've gotten to Christianity, we are rolling on the floor, asking you to stop the dog and pony show of your very specific and detailed Apologetic of the Bible when your sources are the minority view, and have no evidence to back up one shred of the important claims.

Miracles can't be tested, eh?

How convenient for people who want to use miracles to explain the Universe and Life itself in a nice neat, consumable package, I say drollely.



After all, Hell is like Atheists using the threat of "The Purge" in Russia, or the "Cultural Revolution" in China.

"Well, you better believe in Us, or else we'll rise up and kill everyone who doesn't believe the right thing! But, hey, it's beautiful, though, in the end... But, it's against my ethics to kill, so you're safe. I'm a Spiritual Atheist, man, peace and Love... but, I'm not joking about supporting Us. It probably would end that way. It's just the way the Universe ultimately operates... Oh, sure, I've got a whole Explanation about anything you could ever ask...

You should come to the Temple... We call it that because it's a wry joke... Oh, you got the joke?

er..Yes, I suppose we call it a Temple because that's it's function. After all, you don't need God to have a Religion!"

So, Imagine if I truly Believed we were on the cusp of a World War III among Science and the Church, and truly believed you would be killed in this war as a traitor. Not because I thought you desreved such harsh punishment, but because Nature was going to do it, regardless. We all die once and imagined I believed the tenor of the Age was a Clear and Present danger for a Purge from Government, then Academia, then culturally?

Imagine I truly believed that the reason I couldn't mourn your death as well as I might is because your name would be wiped from record forever, your whole family killed, and other atrocities that would be like a year in writhing agony?

Imagine I painted a picture so vivid and precise that you truly believed you were on the cusp of your own personal armaggedon, you, your family, your friends... Every single one of them tortured and killed.
But the bad guys would live on..

You could retreat to your Faith and experience the horror, or you could allow a bit of doubt creep in...

I wonder if many Christians might do what many non-Christians did when Christianity became the State religion?

However, if I used those tactics, I'd be considered a bit of a drama queen.

[East of Eden]

I'd say 'kil;ing' or being willing to forcibly (by threat of violence) impose one's beliefs upon non-believers would be the extreme end.

Does this include the threat of eternal damnation or eternal oblivion? Or are we suppose to keep it light when the Bible warns us of Hell and God's wrath? It's just a big joke?

According to you, those two places don't exist, so what do you care?

So, if I threaten sending your family to my dungeon to be tortured forever if they don't do what I say... you'd find that just a funny joke?

After all, my dungeon doesn't exist.

Physically threatened, yes, stating an idea I disagree with, no. I would ignore it, something you have all kinds of trouble doing.

However, you are talking about belief. You believe there is some kind of Hell, right? You do believe it when you say there is a Hell and God will use it? Right?

Yes.

See, I'm not worried about Hell, I'm worried about your tactics to get me to fall in love with the same idea you have.

Maybe the Holy Spirit is convicting you.

Just because you are persuaded by some fantasy doens't make that fantasy true.

It isn't a fantasy.

It does, however, tell me a lot about your psychological make-up: you are a religious zealot if you ascribe to one religion, thick or thin. Or, you are a dangerous mystic... Right? After all, we don't even know what kind of supernatural world exists "out there" in yours and other theists "la la land in their brain.

Which means logically you are dangerous zealot if you think your world view to be true.

For all we know, there is no supernatural world, or it could be a weak force in our lives, or it could be animism, or pantheism, or any number of religions...

By the time we've gotten to Christianity, we are rolling on the floor, asking you to stop the dog and pony show of your very specific and detailed Apologetic of the Bible when your sources are the minority view, and have no evidence to back up one shred of the important claims.

There is lots of evidence, finding some here honest enough to look at is is another thing.

Miracles can't be tested, eh?

If Jesus really did walk on water 2,000 years ago, how do you propose to test it?

How convenient for people who want to use miracles to explain their religion, I say drollely.

The correct spelling is drolly.

[Ooberman]

After all, Hell is like Atheists using the threat of "The Purge" in Russia, or the "Cultural Revolution" in China.

"Well, you better believe in Us, or else we'll rise up and kill everyone who doesn't believe the right thing! But, hey, it's beautiful, though, in the end... But, it's against my ethics to kill, so you're safe. I'm a Spiritual Atheist, man, peace and Love... but, I'm not joking about supporting Us. It probably would end that way. It's just the way the Universe ultimately operates... Oh, sure, I've got a whole Explanation about anything you could ever ask...

You should come to the Temple... We call it that because it's a wry joke... Oh, you got the joke?

er..Yes, I suppose we call it a Temple because that's it's function. After all, you don't need God to have a Religion!"

So, Imagine if I truly Believed we were on the cusp of a World War III between Science and the Church? Imagine I truly believed you would be killed in this war as a traitor, or heretic, as it were?

You wouldn't be considered a traitor by my judgment, but I did beleive the Right End was the one that happened. I could try to help, but ultimately, militant atheists had taken over, and While I was safe, I disagreed with ALL of the tactics.

However, I would publically support the practices because of fear of not being One of Them. Your punishment would be Just because that is what "Just" meant at the time. Not because I thought you deserved such harsh punishment, but because Nature was going to do it, regardless. We all die once and imagined I believed the tenor of the Age was a Clear and Present danger for another Purge from Government, then Academia, then culturally...

Imagine I thought this elaborate fantasy was real, AND I truly believed I had evidence but yo wouldn't "honestly" look at it?

Imagine I truly believed that the reason I couldn't mourn your death as well as I might is because your name would be wiped from record forever, your whole family killed, and other atrocities? Any mention of the Purged would be immidiate family and friend purge.

Suddenly, all around the world, family members would disappear in the night. And I had evidence of many such kidnappings?

Imagine I painted a picture so vivid and precise that you truly believed you were on the cusp of your own personal armaggedon, you, your family, your friends... Every single one of them tortured and killed.
But the bad guys would live on..

You could retreat to your Faith and experience the horror, or you could allow a bit of doubt creep in...

I wonder if many Christians might do what many non-Christians did when Christianity became the State religion?

However, if I used those tactics, I'd be considered a bit of a drama queen. It would be a cruel joke to play on the gullible.

[dianaiad]

I'd say 'kil;ing' or being willing to forcibly (by threat of violence) impose one's beliefs upon non-believers would be the extreme end.

Does this include the threat of eternal damnation or eternal oblivion? Or are we suppose to keep it light when the Bible warns us of Hell and God's wrath? It's just a big joke?

Ooberman, a threat is only effective if the one being threatened believes in it. Tell me: are YOU threatened into going to church by someone telling you that you are going to go to hell if you don't?

No?

Then what makes you think that would work on anybody ELSE who doesn't already share a belief in heaven/hell/whatever?

Extremists are those who make their threats immediate, violent and real. Not 'hell' eventually, but prison/stocks/whippings/bombs/ RIGHT NOW.

[Ooberman]

Extremists are those who make their threats immediate, violent and real. Not 'hell' eventually, but prison/stocks/whippings/bombs/ RIGHT NOW.

You mean Yahweh and all the souls he's torturing now?

Well, right, only if it's real....

So, do YOU believe God has ever made his threats "immediate, violent and real"?

[dianaiad]

Extremists are those who make their threats immediate, violent and real. Not 'hell' eventually, but prison/stocks/whippings/bombs/ RIGHT NOW.

You mean Yahweh and all the souls he's torturing now?

Well, right, only if it's real....

So, do YOU believe God has ever made his threats "immediate, violent and real"?

ER....

Are you acknowledging that God exists to BE an 'extremist?"

[Ooberman]

Extremists are those who make their threats immediate, violent and real. Not 'hell' eventually, but prison/stocks/whippings/bombs/ RIGHT NOW.

You mean Yahweh and all the souls he's torturing now?

Well, right, only if it's real....

So, do YOU believe God has ever made his threats "immediate, violent and real"?

ER....

Are you acknowledging that God exists to BE an 'extremist?"

Sigh... no, only that your definition of "Extremist" would include your God.

Or is that what you meant to do?

[dianaiad]

Extremists are those who make their threats immediate, violent and real. Not 'hell' eventually, but prison/stocks/whippings/bombs/ RIGHT NOW.

You mean Yahweh and all the souls he's torturing now?

Well, right, only if it's real....

So, do YOU believe God has ever made his threats "immediate, violent and real"?

ER....

Are you acknowledging that God exists to BE an 'extremist?"

Sigh... no, only that your definition of "Extremist" would include your God.

Or is that what you meant to do?

Well, 'extremist' is rather wedded to a spectrum of opinion. After all, it's not exactly an 'extreme' position to hold that water is wet, is it...or that those who drive drunk deserve to get more than just a speeding ticket?

So, if someone decides to walk through a medieval city in her $50,000 designer dress, is it an 'extreme' position to shout 'gardeloo!" before the chamber pot gets emptied on her?

If a drunk gets stopped before he plows through a bunch of kids at a crosswalk, is it 'extreme' to haul his assets off to jail...and see to it that he doesn't drive at all for awhile?

Truth is never extreme. It simply is. If God exists, then He is truth....and therefore not extreme.

The continuum of belief...including the extreme ends.. comes in when we are talking about those who believe in God; not about God Himself.

Sheesh, you're the atheist, you shouldn't have any problems with this one.

[Ooberman]

Now we have come full circle and you are arguing for what I was arguing in the beginning.

Extremism is a range, not a specific definition. (As I tried to tell you when I mentioned extreme sports).

I think you have finally agreed with me, but you are now using it as some support for your position.

I can't take this, Di, it's too crazy for me. Stop arguing for the sake of arguing!