Half of US Muslims: Criticism of Islam Should be a Crime

[East of Eden]

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/29 ... sts?page=7

Not only do half of US Muslims think criticism of their religion should be a crime, 40% want to be ruled by Sharia Law, not our Constitution.

One in five could not agree those who criticized Islam should be spared the death penalty.

Does anyone think this is not a problem?

[dusk]

Nonsense, almost all terror attacks today are from Muslims, often against their co-religionists. How many are done by Christians? You mentioned anti-Semitism earlier, Muslims have pretty much a monopoly on that that, Jew-hate is part and parcel of Islam. By contrast, Israel has no greater friends than evangelical Christians.

Yes but one shouldn't forget that it is a place with a big chunk of youth who are unhappy with their general situation.
Christians also had their terrorism. Look at Ireland. Latin America.
Today ist rather quite.

Ireland was more about tribalism. Several of the leaders on both sides were agnostics. What you ignore is they did those things despite of the teachings of Christ, the jihadists operate because of the word and deed of Muhammed.

Islam and that whole region is extremely tribal in nature. The point is honor and respect also being respected is extremely important to them. Today they basically have an inferiority complex which makes them unfriendly. In both Ireland and latin america religion and the church did their part. Whether that goes against your interpretation of the bible does not matter. Religion is the excuse. A banner under which people unit if all else doesn't work usually not for very rational reasons.

Islam got vocal with 9/11 and now those wars.

You really don't know your history if you think Jihad started on 9/11. Islam has been at war with non-Muslims since its founding, save for the now ended recent several century interlude that was due to Western military/technology superiority. Now they are a threat because they are more effective at using our technology. They themselves haven't invented anything besides the suicide bomb. As recently as the 1600s Vienna was threatened by Islam.

I said got vocal not started. And Vienna wasn't threatened as much by Islam as by an empire that acted no different than any other. They brought us all kinds of nice things before they left. Later they actually became allies which is why they got occupied. Relation weren't all that bad. France and Germany had more fights.
Before 9/11 nobody gave anything about the arab world. It wasn't anything more or less interesting than some african or asian countries.

In some African states they repeatedly kill each other and terrorize other minorities but we barely take note.
Nobody ever in all of history liked the Jews. They hated them in Russia, in Germany, in France, in everywhere. Now they got a country formerly occupied by fellow Muslims and the defense sponsored by the west. That west that is so rich and immoral and generally bad. It is no surprise Jews aren't popular.

Nonsense, Jew hate is inherent to Islam.

Jew hate was inherent to the general european and eurasian population until the second world war. The Nazis didn't beat down the Jews because they had some special beef with them but simply because they represented the perfect already setup target. Throughout history Jews were never more than tolerated and generally vilified for well pretty much anything.

Imagine there would be war in the middle east and a big bunch of some ethnicity would join new yorker Muslims in the big apple. They take over the big Apple after a BS war sponsored by a superior middle east. (Assume for the sake of the argument that the US is as advanced as Russia now and the ME more like the US Army). Keep their own culture and claim the right to land via and old book mostly.
From their perspective why should they like Jews?
Sure the whole conflict could have been resolved ages ago if the arabs weren't such stubborn neighbors and maybe had accepted the rich Jews as an economic blessing. Yet Israeli settlers have some nutjobs among them which don't help the situation. I don't think the conservatives in Europe or the US would be quite shitty neighbors too.
Islam certainly doesn't help but it isn't the religion for why this turned sideways. If they wouldn't have been occupied after WW1 and ruled in such poor ways that they are now so far behind and then again hurt in their pride by the existence of Israel things would probably be just fine.

Then why is radical Islam at war with 'infidels' in many parts of the world that have nothing to do with Israel? Take India, for example, is the following because of Israel?

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/09/ ... terrorism/

[/quote]Radical islam is the symptom not the cause of the problems down there is what I am saying.

Concerning that link. Maybe you should read a bit more news about India. Those all so peaceful Hindus are pretty cruel themselves. Some of them anyway. There are mad people everywhere. Christians did that stuff too in the past. It is not like we know today important things that they were laking. You didn't need to understand electricity or relativity theory to understand that slaughtering thousands of Muslim prisoners isn't nice. Our modern knowledge in science doesn't stop people in the 3rd world from killing each other for the same made up irrational reasons they and we did a long time ago. Islam is quite easy to misuse and I don't like the religion or even its basic philosophical tennets in the mild interpretations but people always find reasons to kill people. With or without a religion.

Globalization works for radicalism too at rare occasions. The majority of killing and terror happens in Muslim countries. I wouldn't want to live there. India got split not for no reason. They had more than one massacre of both sides because they are those people and the others are the others. Even the buddhists with their generally fairly good reputation in the west aren't all that nice in Myanmar to their Muslim minority.

The pride isn't all that insulted by Israel. Israel is the propaganda focus. The real issue is that the West occupied those lands and later had their fingers in politics for a long time. If you ever find yourself on an Islamic forum like I did once, the issue of Israel is the poster child but the real problem seems to be that they want their culture to be the superior source of everything that is right, good, knowledge, science. But it isn't. So somebody has got to be responsible for that as it cannot be (as it always is) a local problem.
Israel is a poster child but if we had a reversed situation it wouldn't be so different. I am quite sure of that. You can always find justification for whatever you want to believe. That is what history undeniably taught us.

[East of Eden]

Nonsense, almost all terror attacks today are from Muslims, often against their co-religionists. How many are done by Christians? You mentioned anti-Semitism earlier, Muslims have pretty much a monopoly on that that, Jew-hate is part and parcel of Islam. By contrast, Israel has no greater friends than evangelical Christians.

Yes but one shouldn't forget that it is a place with a big chunk of youth who are unhappy with their general situation.
Christians also had their terrorism. Look at Ireland. Latin America.
Today ist rather quite.

Ireland was more about tribalism. Several of the leaders on both sides were agnostics. What you ignore is they did those things despite of the teachings of Christ, the jihadists operate because of the word and deed of Muhammed.

Islam and that whole region is extremely tribal in nature. The point is honor and respect also being respected is extremely important to them. Today they basically have an inferiority complex which makes them unfriendly. In both Ireland and latin america religion and the church did their part. Whether that goes against your interpretation of the bible does not matter. Religion is the excuse. A banner under which people unit if all else doesn't work usually not for very rational reasons.

Islam got vocal with 9/11 and now those wars.

You really don't know your history if you think Jihad started on 9/11. Islam has been at war with non-Muslims since its founding, save for the now ended recent several century interlude that was due to Western military/technology superiority. Now they are a threat because they are more effective at using our technology. They themselves haven't invented anything besides the suicide bomb. As recently as the 1600s Vienna was threatened by Islam.

I said got vocal not started. And Vienna wasn't threatened as much by Islam as by an empire that acted no different than any other. They brought us all kinds of nice things before they left. Later they actually became allies which is why they got occupied. Relation weren't all that bad. France and Germany had more fights.
Before 9/11 nobody gave anything about the arab world. It wasn't anything more or less interesting than some african or asian countries.

In some African states they repeatedly kill each other and terrorize other minorities but we barely take note.
Nobody ever in all of history liked the Jews. They hated them in Russia, in Germany, in France, in everywhere. Now they got a country formerly occupied by fellow Muslims and the defense sponsored by the west. That west that is so rich and immoral and generally bad. It is no surprise Jews aren't popular.

Nonsense, Jew hate is inherent to Islam.

Jew hate was inherent to the general european and eurasian population until the second world war. The Nazis didn't beat down the Jews because they had some special beef with them but simply because they represented the perfect already setup target. Throughout history Jews were never more than tolerated and generally vilified for well pretty much anything.

Imagine there would be war in the middle east and a big bunch of some ethnicity would join new yorker Muslims in the big apple. They take over the big Apple after a BS war sponsored by a superior middle east. (Assume for the sake of the argument that the US is as advanced as Russia now and the ME more like the US Army). Keep their own culture and claim the right to land via and old book mostly.
From their perspective why should they like Jews?
Sure the whole conflict could have been resolved ages ago if the arabs weren't such stubborn neighbors and maybe had accepted the rich Jews as an economic blessing. Yet Israeli settlers have some nutjobs among them which don't help the situation. I don't think the conservatives in Europe or the US would be quite shitty neighbors too.
Islam certainly doesn't help but it isn't the religion for why this turned sideways. If they wouldn't have been occupied after WW1 and ruled in such poor ways that they are now so far behind and then again hurt in their pride by the existence of Israel things would probably be just fine.

Then why is radical Islam at war with 'infidels' in many parts of the world that have nothing to do with Israel? Take India, for example, is the following because of Israel?

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/09/ ... terrorism/

Radical islam is the symptom not the cause of the problems down there is what I am saying.

Concerning that link. Maybe you should read a bit more news about India. Those all so peaceful Hindus are pretty cruel themselves. Some of them anyway. There are mad people everywhere. Christians did that stuff too in the past. It is not like we know today important things that they were laking. You didn't need to understand electricity or relativity theory to understand that slaughtering thousands of Muslim prisoners isn't nice. Our modern knowledge in science doesn't stop people in the 3rd world from killing each other for the same made up irrational reasons they and we did a long time ago. Islam is quite easy to misuse and I don't like the religion or even its basic philosophical tennets in the mild interpretations but people always find reasons to kill people. With or without a religion.

Globalization works for radicalism too at rare occasions. The majority of killing and terror happens in Muslim countries. I wouldn't want to live there. India got split not for no reason. They had more than one massacre of both sides because they are those people and the others are the others. Even the buddhists with their generally fairly good reputation in the west aren't all that nice in Myanmar to their Muslim minority.

The pride isn't all that insulted by Israel. Israel is the propaganda focus. The real issue is that the West occupied those lands and later had their fingers in politics for a long time. If you ever find yourself on an Islamic forum like I did once, the issue of Israel is the poster child but the real problem seems to be that they want their culture to be the superior source of everything that is right, good, knowledge, science. But it isn't. So somebody has got to be responsible for that as it cannot be (as it always is) a local problem.
Israel is a poster child but if we had a reversed situation it wouldn't be so different. I am quite sure of that. You can always find justification for whatever you want to believe. That is what history undeniably taught us.

I will suggest to you that the following facts have little to do with Israel.

Muslims have carried out over 20,747 terrorist atrocities since 9/11. The vast majority of world terrorism, violence and war are motivated by Islam. There are about 400 recognized terrorist groups in the world of which over 90% are Islamist groups. Over 90% of the current world fighting involves Islamist terror movements.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 52:

Muslims have carried out over 20,747 terrorist atrocities since 9/11. The vast majority of world terrorism, violence and war are motivated by Islam. There are about 400 recognized terrorist groups in the world of which over 90% are Islamist groups. Over 90% of the current world fighting involves Islamist terror movements.

Please present a source, or any other data you feel pertinent, regarding these numbers.

[East of Eden]

From Post 52:

Muslims have carried out over 20,747 terrorist atrocities since 9/11. The vast majority of world terrorism, violence and war are motivated by Islam. There are about 400 recognized terrorist groups in the world of which over 90% are Islamist groups. Over 90% of the current world fighting involves Islamist terror movements.

Please present a source, or any other data you feel pertinent, regarding these numbers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_d ... anizations

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 54:

Muslims have carried out over 20,747 terrorist atrocities since 9/11. The vast majority of world terrorism, violence and war are motivated by Islam. There are about 400 recognized terrorist groups in the world of which over 90% are Islamist groups. Over 90% of the current world fighting involves Islamist terror movements.

So I ask...

Please present a source, or any other data you feel pertinent, regarding these numbers.

And what do we get?

A link to a list of terrorist organizations.

Nothing to show the numbers of "atrocities", nothing to to show the "vast majority of world terrorism, violence and war are motivated by Islam", nothing to show "Over 90% of the current world fighting involves Islamist terror movements".

This is one reason I'm so adamant about challenging so many of this claimant's claims - where when we do, we get this kind of 'evidence' in support of 'em.

[dusk]

The propaganda against the west important for the terrorism that actually affects us has a lot to do with Israel. Without Israel that would stay much more of a solely local problem. When North Sudan fights South Sudan you also have Islamists involved but to america and europe that would just be another senseless civil war because of cultural tensions. Today most of what we call terrorism today is associated with Islamism. Over the course of history terrorism was always the weapon of those that felt oppressed or fighting an asymmetric war but not something Islamists invented.
Counting all the insurgencies in Muslim countries as Islamist terrorism is quite intellectually dishonest if you do it just because you want to put blame on Islam.

Islam has been around for a long time and today it is at the pinnacle of culture war in many areas of the planet.

Seriously read something about India and what they do and did to each other quite aside from Islam. Those hindus or whatever other groups they have behave just as maniacally inhuman as jihadists at times.
The last public murder in Vienna that got some attention wasn't done by any Muslims but by Sikh shooting down some Guru from a different sect or something. Not sure what the deal was really but ridiculous and certainly not very Gandhi style.

Islam is just one of those religions. Mind you the last one I would choose among the big five if I had too. In our rich fairly well educated countries we got fairly many quite unintelligent people that vote for populist nonsense, that run after neo nazi groups, that join apocalyptical paramilitary and take it seriously and whatnot. In Sudan they got 50% under the age of 16. If they tried they could give those children any serious education. It is easy to radicalize anybody down there with some simple narrative. Unite under a flag against American Israel, western Oil is exploiting you, international fishing. Well there is enough truth about all kinds of things to get lots of people to focus on some enemy and all that you really need is a handful of people with guns that feel justified in any action they take. In Egypt there are 80 million people (most Muslims). If you convince 1:1000 you would have an army. Islam itself doesn't make terrorist. Christianity didn't stop that in Africa or Ireland. Finding the handful of crazy people that need an excuse for the scarce terrorist attacks over the web in the western world isn't that difficult either.

The strange thing terrorism is so extremely effective because so many overreacts with our modern media. We give up liberties, fight extremely expensive wars and all that because of a handful of maniacs that you will always have to deal with. In America you people insist on some ridiculous 2nd amendment to have guns and to form militias. Probably to fight the imaginary evil government that you voted into power but is coming for you anyway because you do such a bad job at voting. When there is one bombing everything gets thrown overboard and torture, excessive police force is back on the table. If I wanted an authoritarian regime, I would start a terrorist cell and bomb random people. Seems the sure fire way to get all that the so called libertarians fight against.

When you think about it. Executing a terrorist act is really not that difficult. The Internet holds all the information needed to build almost anything. If there were as many terrorists as some would have us believe, there would have to be way more attacks.

[East of Eden]

From Post 54:

Muslims have carried out over 20,747 terrorist atrocities since 9/11. The vast majority of world terrorism, violence and war are motivated by Islam. There are about 400 recognized terrorist groups in the world of which over 90% are Islamist groups. Over 90% of the current world fighting involves Islamist terror movements.

So I ask...

Please present a source, or any other data you feel pertinent, regarding these numbers.

And what do we get?

A link to a list of terrorist organizations.

Nothing to show the numbers of "atrocities", nothing to to show the "vast majority of world terrorism, violence and war are motivated by Islam", nothing to show "Over 90% of the current world fighting involves Islamist terror movements".

This is one reason I'm so adamant about challenging so many of this claimant's claims - where when we do, we get this kind of 'evidence' in support of 'em.

Uh, did you not notice that most of your terror groups are Muslim? Most would call that evidence. I really don't know what you're grumpy about. There have been over 20,000 Muslim terror attacks since 9/11, here are the last months worth:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

[JoeyKnothead]

I swear, it's like pulling hen's teeth trying to get you to support or retract your assertions.


From Post 57:

Uh, did you not notice that most of your terror groups are Muslim?

How does "most" equate to your claim that...

Muslims have carried out over 20,747 terrorist atrocities since 9/11.
...

?

How does "most" show that...

Over 90% of the current world fighting involves Islamist terror movements.

?

There have been over 20,000 Muslim terror attacks since 9/11, here are the last months worth:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

I see nothing in that link shows "over 20,000 Muslim terror attacks since 9/11".

I will now, for the third and final time, request that you support your claims or have the common courtesy and honor to retract that which you can't show is truth.

You can show you speak truth, can't ya?

Or is your methodology the same as that of The Institute for Rectally Derived Claims?

[East of Eden]

I swear, it's like pulling hen's teeth trying to get you to support or retract your assertions.


From Post 57:

Uh, did you not notice that most of your terror groups are Muslim?

How does "most" equate to your claim that...

Muslims have carried out over 20,747 terrorist atrocities since 9/11.
...

?

How does "most" show that...

Over 90% of the current world fighting involves Islamist terror movements.

?

There have been over 20,000 Muslim terror attacks since 9/11, here are the last months worth:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

I see nothing in that link shows "over 20,000 Muslim terror attacks since 9/11".

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/TheList.htm

It was part of the previously posted link.

I will now, for the third and final time, request that you support your claims or have the common courtesy and honor to retract that which you can't show is truth.

You can show you speak truth, can't ya?

Either that or you're not able to comprehend the truth.

[Nilloc James]

http://www.pewforum.org/Muslim/the-worl ... ciety.aspx

Further data worth considering on the issue