Student Suspended for Refusing to Step on Jesus

[East of Eden]

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2013/03/21/fa ... -on-jesus/

Wonder if they would make students do that to the names of Muhammed or Obama? Probably not, they seem to only like to push boundaries on things that don't push back.

Does anyone not find this objectionable?

[East of Eden]

[Replying to post 1 by East of Eden]

The story seems to be quite bogus.

Here:
http://www.mediaite.com/online/college- ... %E2%80%99/

I found the description of the exercise:
“This exercise is a bit sensitive, but really drives home the point that even though symbols are arbitrary, they take on very strong and emotional meanings. Have the students write the name JESUS in big letters on a piece of paper. Ask the students to stand up and put the paper on the floor in front of them with the name facing up. Ask the students to think about it for a moment. After a brief period of silence, instruct them to step on the paper. Most will hesitate. Ask why they can’t step on the paper. Discuss the importance of symbols in culture.�

So, NUMBER 1: NO STOMPING ON JESUS WAS REQUIRED!

Here is the message from the University:
“We sincerely apologize for any offense this has caused. Florida Atlantic University respects all religions and welcomes people of all faiths, backgrounds and beliefs…. Contrary to some media reports, no students were forced to take part in the exercise; the instructor told all of the students in the class that they could choose whether or not to participate…. While we do not comment on personnel matters, and while student privacy laws prevent us from commenting on any specific student at the University, we can confirm that no student has been expelled, suspended or disciplined by the University as a result of any activity that took place during this class… This exercise will not be used again….�

So why isn't that exercise being used again, if it was all bogus? The student didn't say he was suspended by the school, just by the teacher.

Somebody here is on a mission to distort the truth.

Pot, meet kettle.

EDIT:
Here is more:
http://www.cbs12.com/news/top-stories/s ... 6060.shtml
They even can't match the title of the story with facts!!!
The student seems to be a liar because the suspension is something that just can't be done without documentation. On record, the student says only that he himself doesn't want to come back to class, but how this is twisted into a suspension is beyond my comprehension ...

He said the teacher suspended him, naturally the teacher and school would want to backpedal on that. If the class suspension was withdrawn and the student invited back to class, I can see how he wouldn't be comfortable there, making it no less an outrage. Why is it you doubt everything the student says, but don't question the teacher or school who were embarassed by this? They certainly have a motive to fudge what really happened.

EDIT 2:
EoE, you are known for bringing up bogus information previously.

Baloney, cite or retract. I'll add you are well known for making slanderous accusations with no backup when confronted with inconvenient evidence.

I can certainly provide citations of East of Eden providing erroneous information. If requested, I may take the time to provide citations from the forum.

OK, if you want to play that game I'll do the same for you. What 100% atheist did seems to be right out of the Alinsky playbook, demonize the messenger and ignore the issue.

I think that considering all available facts, there might be no other issue than for whatever reason the student didn't like the class (maybe because of a specific exersise). But nobody suspended the student. I am unaware of any legal way for a professor to suspend a student from class without the university suspending the student. So someone in this story is not telling the truth and I believe it is specific so-called news outlets that distort information in a way that is convinient for their stories.

CBS is a 'so-called news outlet'?

[dianaiad]

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2013/03/21/fa ... -on-jesus/

Wonder if they would make students do that to the names of Muhammed or Obama? Probably not, they seem to only like to push boundaries on things that don't push back.

Does anyone not find this objectionable?

Yes. That's cruel and serves no educational purpose.

If I was in charge, the teacher would be fired and facing legal consequences.

For what? Having his students step on a crumpled piece of paper? How fast do you want to be laughed out of court.

Leave out the irony of the student being a Mormon, a sect that many Christians don't accept AS Christian (they don't believe in the 'right' Jesus, after all), I have to wonder what your reaction would be if the exercise were something else. Along the lines of, oh, suspending your atheist child from class because he refused to participate in a Wiccan dedication, or attend a Catholic baptism (and behave himself during the ceremony) or bow his head and fold his arms during school prayer?

Given the decades of controversy over that last bit, it seems that your objection is, well, hypocritical at best.

As well, I wonder what the reaction would have been if the name on the paper were 'Allah,' or if all the girls had to show up in burkahs? I wonder what you would have said here if it were you, and the name on the paper was that of your mother, father or siblings?

We are a very symbolic species, and symbols have MEANING. you do. I do. We all do...the very methods we use to communicate are symbols....and writing a name on a piece of paper and then stepping on it? THAT is a symbol that everybody on the planet recognizes. It has not ever, as far as I am aware, been used to signify respect for the person/idea/idiology that name symbolizes.

[dianaiad]

I think that considering all available facts, there might be no other issue than for whatever reason the student didn't like the class (maybe because of a specific exersise). But nobody suspended the student. I am unaware of any legal way for a professor to suspend a student from class without the university suspending the student.

Hold it, buster.

I am a teacher. I have also been 'in charge' in many under-grad and post-grad college classes. Not only can a professor do this, I COULD. And I have. All one has to do is tell the student to leave the class. If the case goes no further, it goes no further, but for that class, the student was most definitely suspended. As in...kicked out of the room. As in...asked to leave. As in....suspended. As a general rule, any further action wouldn't be a 'suspension' (that's a high school thing, telling a student that s/he may not return to class for a set number of days/periods). The next step is some sort of student discipline, and if getting kicked out of class is the result, it's an expulsion, not a suspension.


If you are going to get technical and picky, then let us by all means get technical and picky. If that student was asked to leave the class by the teacher, he was suspended, whether or not the school later did anything official. For the school, (and you) to pretend that if being asked to leave a class is not an official suspension/expulsion, then the student was not asked to leave the class? That's equivocation, and it's a fallacy.

As for me, the fact that the school did not immediately deny that the student was asked to leave the class, and then did a WHALE of a lot of word spinning and back pedaling, tells me that even if the student got his end of the story a little embellished, that the students were indeed under the impression that they were required to step on the name, and that the student was indeed asked to leave the class---which the student would have seen as 'suspension,' and quite logically so.

The SCHOOL, I notice, is very, very careful to use the legal reference to suspension...no official action was taken against the student, therefore the student was lying about being told to leave the class? They post the text of the exercise, ergo the professor could not POSSIBLY have embellished upon it?

(snort) Been in academia a long time, and if he did that exercise precisely the way it was written in the book, it's the first time I've ever heard of that happening.

Now. Do I think that the student's sense of offense was so great that he may have misinterpreted or magnified something? Sure. That probably did happen. However, I certainly do not think that he was lying either about the impression he got that the students were required to step on the Savior's Name, or that he was asked to leave.

.............'course, he could have been asked to leave because he was a bit too incensed. I would have been. There is no way I would have put up with an experiment like that, no matter what name was on the paper, and I would have been, er, obnoxious about my objection.

So someone in this story is not telling the truth and I believe it is specific so-called news outlets that distort information in a way that is convinient for their stories. Notice that student is not suspended in any way without receiving an official notice of suspention.

Oh. so now YOU are claiming that if he was not officially suspended, he was not then asked to leave the class? Hmmnn..

The university has its spin machine well oiled and going in top gear.

So, if this were true, there will be no problem to produce at least a copy of the suspension notice. Then, I would be totally with you that the university acted super-stupidly. However, I don't see any evidence that this is the case and anyone is going to produce an official notice of suspension. I am not at all accusing you of distorting infrmation, but you could be a bit more critical of such stories and check if they are "kosher" by anti-atheist standards.

See, I am not ignoring the issue at all. And I am not too much in business of demonising you.

[Baz]

I wonder how it would have gone if they had got wind of what was going on and all written Deandre Poole on the paper.