Christian Politics

[jcrawford]

As a Christian statesman, rather than churchman, I would claim that Christian citizens can freely exercise their constitutional and God-given rights to free religious speech and free exercise of religion within both church and state assemblies here in America, if not anywhere else in the world.

I'm sure there may be a few posters on this political forum who may disagree with, and object to, such a Christian political claim in their state and city government. However, I am willing to prove that they would have no more right to speak freely in government than a Christian statesman does, if they deny him his God-given and constitutional right to speak religiously and to exercise and express his religious beliefs and opinions in state government.

[ST88]

If atheists and secularists have the right to force their beliefs on others, don't Christians, Jews and Muslims have the same right in America? If not, what are we doing supporting and defending religious states in the Middle East and Afghanistan with our tax dollars for?

You may wish to ask other Christians who believe in a secular government. There has never been a time in this country's history where Atheists wielded any major political power. By most estimates, non-theists are 8-10% of the population. I could only hope that non-theists could shape the national dialogue, but this has never happened. At best, all we can do is react to it.

Your real argument is with the majority of believers who nonetheless see governance as separate from religion.

You also have a problem with using the term "force" when you talk about secular views. No one is forcing you to lead a secular existence.

[jcrawford]

If atheists and secularists have the right to force their beliefs on others, don't Christians, Jews and Muslims have the same right in America? If not, what are we doing supporting and defending religious states in the Middle East and Afghanistan with our tax dollars for?

Since when are atheists trying to force their beliefs on anyone? When was the last time there was a law passed to close your church or burn your Bible? You're blowing smoke out of your patootie, as usual.

Ever since 1960, your secular SCOTUS has blown our Christian patooties right out of the schoolhouse door.

One we get finished with the atheistic femmies and seccies in socialist America though, it ain't gonna happen anymore.

[jcrawford]

Your real argument is with the majority of believers who nonetheless see governance as separate from religion.

I know what you mean, but once they see Christian and Islamic statesmen giving atheistic feminists and secular Jews a run for their political money, like sheep, they will run from the shepherd's dogs which bark loudest in exposing the corruption of atheisic and secular politicians who support the anti-Christian abortionist's agenda.

You also have a problem with using the term "force" when you talk about secular views. No one is forcing you to lead a secular existence.

Atheistic femmies and seccies are forcing anti-Christian secular socialism on all white and black American Protestants.

[micatala]

There is a word for this.


Baloney.


What do you think the ratio of atheists of any sort, feminist or whatever, to Protestants is in America? I would think on the order of 1 to 8 would be very very generous.

It must be costing you a lot to provide all these free fish, barrels, and guns.

[jcrawford]

There is a word for this.

Baloney.

What do you think the ratio of atheists of any sort, feminist or whatever, to Protestants is in America? I would think on the order of 1 to 8 would be very very generous.

It must be costing you a lot to provide all these free fish, barrels, and guns.

I don't know what you are blathering about here, but if you can show me one Protestant theologian or politician in America who advocates abortions for Jewish, Catholic or black American women, then you might have a point to make.

Till then, I'll continue to enjoy eating my baloney sandwiches, even if you don't like them.

[micatala]

I don't know what you are blathering about here, but if you can show me one Protestant theologian or politician in America who advocates abortions for Jewish, Catholic or black American women, then you might have a point to make.

Here is a short article from a pro-life person noting that many mainline Protestant churches do not subscribe to what might be termed strict anti-abortion doctrine.

Here is a poll indicating that 1 in 5 Protestant Pastors are pro-choice.




Note that the poll above is of the general population of Protestant clergy.


Here is some information on the official positions of a variety of religious groups. It seems it would be difficult for these positions to be what they are without support of at least one minister.

Most Protestant denominations in the United States have longstanding pro-choice positions. The United Church of Christ has maintained a consistently strong pro-choice stance since 1970. In 1994, the General Convention of the Episcopal Church adopted a resolution expressing "unequivocal opposition to any [legislation] that abridges the right of a woman to reach an informed decision about the termination of pregnancy or that would limit the access of a woman to safe means of acting on her decision." In 1992, the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (USA) reaffirmed support for a woman’s right to choose; in 1993, the General Assembly voted to affirm the Freedom of Access to Clinics Act (FACE). At the 1992 General Conference of The United Methodist Church, the principles of Roe v. Wade were reaffirmed by an 84 percent majority vote

As far as the Jewish position:

Jewish tradition upholds choice: Jewish tradition has long affirmed and protected the life, well-being, and health of pregnant women and has upheld the basic right to abortion. The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism,representing Conservative congregations, in 1993 reaffirmed its resolution opposing any legislative attempts to weaken Roe v. Wade through constitutional amendments.

The same site notes a poll a bit in opposition to the first one noted above.

Clergy had an important role in abolishing anti-abortion laws that hurt women. Today, many religious leaders believe abortion must remain a private, moral decision and trust women and their families to make their own decisions in the light oftheir faith traditions and moral values. A 1998 national survey of Protestant and Jewish clergy showed widespread support for reproductive choice, including abortion. Ninety-two percent of respondents said that every woman should be able to decide when to have children according to her own conscience and religious beliefs. Eighty percent supported a woman’s right to a safe and legal abortion.

Point made.


You really ought to check the statements you make against reality. Of course, if you want to continue to serve yourself a steady diet of baloney, I guess that is your choice. Being a pro-choice on baloney person, I will certainly do nothing to infringe on your rights in this area.

[Cathar1950]

jcrawford wrote:

One we get finished with the atheistic femmies and seccies in socialist America though, it ain't gonna happen anymore.

Atheistic femmies and seccies are forcing anti-Christian secular socialism on all white and black American Protestants.

You sure have your work cut out for you.
I personally believe the best coming out of Christianity is feminism, liberation, and social concerns that deal with the down-trodden. You are not one of them.
Don't go after then in a battle of witts, you will lose.

[jcrawford]

I don't know what you are blathering about here, but if you can show me one Protestant theologian or politician in America who advocates abortions for Jewish, Catholic or black American women, then you might have a point to make.

Point made.

So which Protestant theologian or politician advocates abortions for Jewish, Catholic or black American women?

[micatala]

Here was the question.

Atheistic femmies and seccies are forcing anti-Christian secular socialism on all white and black American Protestants.

Here was my point, indicating that the idea of atheists somehow dominating American society is ridiculous at best.

What do you think the ratio of atheists of any sort, feminist or whatever, to Protestants is in America? I would think on the order of 1 to 8 would be very very generous.

Here was your irrelevant response.

I don't know what you are blathering about here, but if you can show me one Protestant theologian or politician in America who advocates abortions for Jewish, Catholic or black American women, then you might have a point to make.

I don't see the need to answer this question again, having answered it once already.

At any rate, I would suggest you provide evidence for your original contention, or withdraw the statement.

[jcrawford]

I don't know what you are blathering about here, but if you can show me one Protestant theologian or politician in America who advocates abortions for Jewish, Catholic or black American women, then you might have a point to make.

I don't see the need to answer this question again, having answered it once already.

But you didn't show me one Protestant theologian or politician in America who advocates abortions for Jewish, Catholic or black American women.

At any rate, I would suggest you provide evidence for your original contention, or withdraw the statement.

I was expressing self-evident religious beliefs which apparently you refuse to accept without "evidence."