Obama Adm. Refuses Benefits to Victims of Hasan

[East of Eden]

According to Obamathink, this wasn't terror, it was 'workplace violence'. Question for debate: Does anyone want to defend this lunacy?

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fort-hood ... N41Qm80WSo

[Wyvern]

Post 36.

Strangely enough you answered this question yourself in your second post on this thread,

"The manual states that the Purple Heart is awarded to service members who are killed or wounded "in action against an enemy of the United States; as the result of an act of any hostile foreign force; or as the result of an international terrorist attack against the United States, provided the Secretary of the military department concerned recognizes the attack as an international terrorist attack."

I bolded the important parts for you so you don't miss it this time. Notice according to the sources you provided a purple heart can be awarded either by an act from a hostile foreign force or an international terrorist attack. Hasan is not a hostile foreign force nor is he an international terrorist attack. This was a domestic terrorist attack perpetrated by a hostile domestic force and as such does not qualify for a purple heart unless the secretary of the army makes a special exception.

All you did was try to equate the civil war with a case of domestic terrorism.

Completely wrong again, I was pointing out your hypocrisy by erecting a phony domestic/foreign division, and that by your reasoning those two wars should have gotten no medals because they were domestic.

To be technical both were hostile foreign forces, so you are wrong on that count.

By your reasoning everyone at Sandy Hook should be given the purple heart.

Was the killer in cahoots with a jihadist who was in contact with foreign terrorists, or did you just make that up?

By your definition he is as much of a terrorist as Hasan, why not let everyone have the same benefits as these people, are you saying injured army members are worth more than injured children?

For a conservative you sure are liberal in doling out medals.

Yes, I do favor medals and benefits for soldiers wounded by a traitor working for the enemy. The leftist contempt for the military continues.....

Yes I have so much contempt for the military I joined up and served, can you say the same?

[East of Eden]

"The manual states that the Purple Heart is awarded to service members who are killed or wounded "in action against an enemy of the United States; as the result of an act of any hostile foreign force; or as the result of an international terrorist attack against the United States, provided the Secretary of the military department concerned recognizes the attack as an international terrorist attack."I bolded the important parts for you so you don't miss it this time.

So why did the wounded soldiers "miss" it?

Notice according to the sources you provided a purple heart can be awarded either by an act from a hostile foreign force or an international terrorist attack. Hasan is not a hostile foreign force nor is he an international terrorist attack.

Nonsense, he clearly is, he is part of a hostile foreign jihad movement and had contacts with international terrorists when planning this. From Wikipedia:

"Two weeks after recommending no conclusions be drawn until after the investigation was completed, Senator Joe Lieberman called the shooting "the most destructive terrorist attack on America since September 11, 2001." Michael Scheuer, the retired former head of the Bin Laden Issue Station, and former U.S. Attorney General Michael Mukasey also described it as a terrorist attack. A group of soldiers and families have sought to have the defense secretary designate the shooting a "terrorist attack;" this would provide them with benefits equal to injuries in combat."

This was a domestic terrorist attack perpetrated by a hostile domestic force and as such does not qualify for a purple heart unless the secretary of the army makes a special exception.

There is nothing that says the attack must take place on foreign soil, as you seem to imagine.

To be technical both were hostile foreign forces, so you are wrong on that count.

Wrong, I don't think the South was ever recognized as a foreign force by the North, but rather as insurrectionists. Some Indians were US citizens as early as 1831.

By your definition he is as much of a terrorist as Hasan,

No he isn't, there you go making things up again.

Yes I have so much contempt for the military I joined up and served,

So did Maj. Hasan.

can you say the same?

No due to health reasons, son served in 101st Airborne, two cousins were Marine and Naval officers, and my uncle is a retired Navy captain, veteran of WWII-Vietnam, and former commanding officer of NAS Barbers Point, Hawaii. They agree with me on this issue.

[Wyvern]

"The manual states that the Purple Heart is awarded to service members who are killed or wounded "in action against an enemy of the United States; as the result of an act of any hostile foreign force; or as the result of an international terrorist attack against the United States, provided the Secretary of the military department concerned recognizes the attack as an international terrorist attack."I bolded the important parts for you so you don't miss it this time.

So why did the wounded soldiers "miss" it?

The only person missing it is you, even after I bolded the important parts you still missed it.

Notice according to the sources you provided a purple heart can be awarded either by an act from a hostile foreign force or an international terrorist attack. Hasan is not a hostile foreign force nor is he an international terrorist attack.

Nonsense, he clearly is, he is part of a hostile foreign jihad movement and had contacts with international terrorists when planning this.

Fine once you can come up with any documentation that shows this to be true I'm sure the paperwork will be started. Even the jihadist he had contact with was an american citizen also so he does not count as an international or foreign terrorist.

"Two weeks after recommending no conclusions be drawn until after the investigation was completed, Senator Joe Lieberman called the shooting "the most destructive terrorist attack on America since September 11, 2001." Michael Scheuer, the retired former head of the Bin Laden Issue Station, and former U.S. Attorney General Michael Mukasey also described it as a terrorist attack. A group of soldiers and families have sought to have the defense secretary designate the shooting a "terrorist attack;" this would provide them with benefits equal to injuries in combat."

Yes it was a terrorist attack, a domestic terrorist attack which does not at present fall within the criteria for a purple heart. Simply because you refuse to see in your own links that it says precisely that does not make it go away.

This was a domestic terrorist attack perpetrated by a hostile domestic force and as such does not qualify for a purple heart unless the secretary of the army makes a special exception.

There is nothing that says the attack must take place on foreign soil, as you seem to imagine.

You are correct but it does say that it has to come from a hostile foreign force, are you saying Hasan is not a US citizen and a member of the US army?

To be technical both were hostile foreign forces, so you are wrong on that count.

Wrong, I don't think the South was ever recognized as a foreign force by the North, but rather as insurrectionists. Some Indians were US citizens as early as 1831.

If such is the case then by your own logic noone should get a medal due to the fact this international jihadist movement of yours is not a recognized nation either

By your definition he is as much of a terrorist as Hasan,

No he isn't, there you go making things up again.

Why not?

Yes I have so much contempt for the military I joined up and served,

So did Maj. Hasan.

I see how much contempt you have for us former members of the military

can you say the same?

No due to health reasons, son served in 101st Airborne, two cousins were Marine and Naval officers, and my uncle is a retired Navy captain, veteran of WWII-Vietnam, and former commanding officer of NAS Barbers Point, Hawaii. They agree with me on this issue.

So why do you go around showing your contempt for me then? You insist on making this a personal issue while from the start I have been telling you that I am doing nothing but simply explaining to you what the criteria states. You continually think what I think has some relevance in this issue, if you don't agree with the determination made by the army write your congressional representatives. It's obvious you are incapable of talking about any issue in a rational manner and insist on devolving every issue into a ad hominem attack against anyone that does not agree with you or even points out inconsistancies.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 42:

No due to health reasons, son served in 101st Airborne, two cousins were Marine and Naval officers, and my uncle is a retired Navy captain, veteran of WWII-Vietnam, and former commanding officer of NAS Barbers Point, Hawaii. They agree with me on this issue.

Discounting any challenge to the referenced folks serving, I challenge you to offer some means by which we can confirm they agree with you on this issue.

1st challenge.

[East of Eden]

"The manual states that the Purple Heart is awarded to service members who are killed or wounded "in action against an enemy of the United States; as the result of an act of any hostile foreign force; or as the result of an international terrorist attack against the United States, provided the Secretary of the military department concerned recognizes the attack as an international terrorist attack."I bolded the important parts for you so you don't miss it this time.

So why did the wounded soldiers "miss" it?

The only person missing it is you, even after I bolded the important parts you still missed it.

Notice according to the sources you provided a purple heart can be awarded either by an act from a hostile foreign force or an international terrorist attack. Hasan is not a hostile foreign force nor is he an international terrorist attack.

Nonsense, he clearly is, he is part of a hostile foreign jihad movement and had contacts with international terrorists when planning this.

Fine once you can come up with any documentation that shows this to be true I'm sure the paperwork will be started. Even the jihadist he had contact with was an american citizen also so he does not count as an international or foreign terrorist.

"Two weeks after recommending no conclusions be drawn until after the investigation was completed, Senator Joe Lieberman called the shooting "the most destructive terrorist attack on America since September 11, 2001." Michael Scheuer, the retired former head of the Bin Laden Issue Station, and former U.S. Attorney General Michael Mukasey also described it as a terrorist attack. A group of soldiers and families have sought to have the defense secretary designate the shooting a "terrorist attack;" this would provide them with benefits equal to injuries in combat."

Yes it was a terrorist attack, a domestic terrorist attack which does not at present fall within the criteria for a purple heart. Simply because you refuse to see in your own links that it says precisely that does not make it go away.

This was a domestic terrorist attack perpetrated by a hostile domestic force and as such does not qualify for a purple heart unless the secretary of the army makes a special exception.

There is nothing that says the attack must take place on foreign soil, as you seem to imagine.

You are correct but it does say that it has to come from a hostile foreign force, are you saying Hasan is not a US citizen and a member of the US army?

To be technical both were hostile foreign forces, so you are wrong on that count.

Wrong, I don't think the South was ever recognized as a foreign force by the North, but rather as insurrectionists. Some Indians were US citizens as early as 1831.

If such is the case then by your own logic noone should get a medal due to the fact this international jihadist movement of yours is not a recognized nation either

By your definition he is as much of a terrorist as Hasan,

No he isn't, there you go making things up again.

Why not?

Yes I have so much contempt for the military I joined up and served,

So did Maj. Hasan.

I see how much contempt you have for us former members of the military

can you say the same?

No due to health reasons, son served in 101st Airborne, two cousins were Marine and Naval officers, and my uncle is a retired Navy captain, veteran of WWII-Vietnam, and former commanding officer of NAS Barbers Point, Hawaii. They agree with me on this issue.

So why do you go around showing your contempt for me then? You insist on making this a personal issue while from the start I have been telling you that I am doing nothing but simply explaining to you what the criteria states. You continually think what I think has some relevance in this issue, if you don't agree with the determination made by the army write your congressional representatives. It's obvious you are incapable of talking about any issue in a rational manner and insist on devolving every issue into a ad hominem attack against anyone that does not agree with you or even points out inconsistancies.

I'm sorry you think this is personal, as we've both said our pieces and I will be traveling through next week, it would probably be a good time to end here.

[Wyvern]

"The manual states that the Purple Heart is awarded to service members who are killed or wounded "in action against an enemy of the United States; as the result of an act of any hostile foreign force; or as the result of an international terrorist attack against the United States, provided the Secretary of the military department concerned recognizes the attack as an international terrorist attack."I bolded the important parts for you so you don't miss it this time.

So why did the wounded soldiers "miss" it?

The only person missing it is you, even after I bolded the important parts you still missed it.

Notice according to the sources you provided a purple heart can be awarded either by an act from a hostile foreign force or an international terrorist attack. Hasan is not a hostile foreign force nor is he an international terrorist attack.

Nonsense, he clearly is, he is part of a hostile foreign jihad movement and had contacts with international terrorists when planning this.

Fine once you can come up with any documentation that shows this to be true I'm sure the paperwork will be started. Even the jihadist he had contact with was an american citizen also so he does not count as an international or foreign terrorist.

"Two weeks after recommending no conclusions be drawn until after the investigation was completed, Senator Joe Lieberman called the shooting "the most destructive terrorist attack on America since September 11, 2001." Michael Scheuer, the retired former head of the Bin Laden Issue Station, and former U.S. Attorney General Michael Mukasey also described it as a terrorist attack. A group of soldiers and families have sought to have the defense secretary designate the shooting a "terrorist attack;" this would provide them with benefits equal to injuries in combat."

Yes it was a terrorist attack, a domestic terrorist attack which does not at present fall within the criteria for a purple heart. Simply because you refuse to see in your own links that it says precisely that does not make it go away.

This was a domestic terrorist attack perpetrated by a hostile domestic force and as such does not qualify for a purple heart unless the secretary of the army makes a special exception.

There is nothing that says the attack must take place on foreign soil, as you seem to imagine.

You are correct but it does say that it has to come from a hostile foreign force, are you saying Hasan is not a US citizen and a member of the US army?

To be technical both were hostile foreign forces, so you are wrong on that count.

Wrong, I don't think the South was ever recognized as a foreign force by the North, but rather as insurrectionists. Some Indians were US citizens as early as 1831.

If such is the case then by your own logic noone should get a medal due to the fact this international jihadist movement of yours is not a recognized nation either

By your definition he is as much of a terrorist as Hasan,

No he isn't, there you go making things up again.

Why not?

Yes I have so much contempt for the military I joined up and served,

So did Maj. Hasan.

I see how much contempt you have for us former members of the military

can you say the same?

No due to health reasons, son served in 101st Airborne, two cousins were Marine and Naval officers, and my uncle is a retired Navy captain, veteran of WWII-Vietnam, and former commanding officer of NAS Barbers Point, Hawaii. They agree with me on this issue.

So why do you go around showing your contempt for me then? You insist on making this a personal issue while from the start I have been telling you that I am doing nothing but simply explaining to you what the criteria states. You continually think what I think has some relevance in this issue, if you don't agree with the determination made by the army write your congressional representatives. It's obvious you are incapable of talking about any issue in a rational manner and insist on devolving every issue into a ad hominem attack against anyone that does not agree with you or even points out inconsistancies.

I'm sorry you think this is personal, as we've both said our pieces and I will be traveling through next week, it would probably be a good time to end here.

Maybe if you would stop with the personal attacks I would not see it as personal. How do you think I am supposed to take it when you compare me to a murderer and a terrorist that you have described as scum. Does your son, uncle and two cousins that you say agree with you also know this is how you view military members?

[East of Eden]

"The manual states that the Purple Heart is awarded to service members who are killed or wounded "in action against an enemy of the United States; as the result of an act of any hostile foreign force; or as the result of an international terrorist attack against the United States, provided the Secretary of the military department concerned recognizes the attack as an international terrorist attack."I bolded the important parts for you so you don't miss it this time.

So why did the wounded soldiers "miss" it?

The only person missing it is you, even after I bolded the important parts you still missed it.

Notice according to the sources you provided a purple heart can be awarded either by an act from a hostile foreign force or an international terrorist attack. Hasan is not a hostile foreign force nor is he an international terrorist attack.

Nonsense, he clearly is, he is part of a hostile foreign jihad movement and had contacts with international terrorists when planning this.

Fine once you can come up with any documentation that shows this to be true I'm sure the paperwork will be started. Even the jihadist he had contact with was an american citizen also so he does not count as an international or foreign terrorist.

"Two weeks after recommending no conclusions be drawn until after the investigation was completed, Senator Joe Lieberman called the shooting "the most destructive terrorist attack on America since September 11, 2001." Michael Scheuer, the retired former head of the Bin Laden Issue Station, and former U.S. Attorney General Michael Mukasey also described it as a terrorist attack. A group of soldiers and families have sought to have the defense secretary designate the shooting a "terrorist attack;" this would provide them with benefits equal to injuries in combat."

Yes it was a terrorist attack, a domestic terrorist attack which does not at present fall within the criteria for a purple heart. Simply because you refuse to see in your own links that it says precisely that does not make it go away.

This was a domestic terrorist attack perpetrated by a hostile domestic force and as such does not qualify for a purple heart unless the secretary of the army makes a special exception.

There is nothing that says the attack must take place on foreign soil, as you seem to imagine.

You are correct but it does say that it has to come from a hostile foreign force, are you saying Hasan is not a US citizen and a member of the US army?

To be technical both were hostile foreign forces, so you are wrong on that count.

Wrong, I don't think the South was ever recognized as a foreign force by the North, but rather as insurrectionists. Some Indians were US citizens as early as 1831.

If such is the case then by your own logic noone should get a medal due to the fact this international jihadist movement of yours is not a recognized nation either

By your definition he is as much of a terrorist as Hasan,

No he isn't, there you go making things up again.

Why not?

Yes I have so much contempt for the military I joined up and served,

So did Maj. Hasan.

I see how much contempt you have for us former members of the military

can you say the same?

No due to health reasons, son served in 101st Airborne, two cousins were Marine and Naval officers, and my uncle is a retired Navy captain, veteran of WWII-Vietnam, and former commanding officer of NAS Barbers Point, Hawaii. They agree with me on this issue.

So why do you go around showing your contempt for me then? You insist on making this a personal issue while from the start I have been telling you that I am doing nothing but simply explaining to you what the criteria states. You continually think what I think has some relevance in this issue, if you don't agree with the determination made by the army write your congressional representatives. It's obvious you are incapable of talking about any issue in a rational manner and insist on devolving every issue into a ad hominem attack against anyone that does not agree with you or even points out inconsistancies.

I'm sorry you think this is personal, as we've both said our pieces and I will be traveling through next week, it would probably be a good time to end here.

Maybe if you would stop with the personal attacks I would not see it as personal. How do you think I am supposed to take it when you compare me to a murderer and a terrorist that you have described as scum. Does your son, uncle and two cousins that you say agree with you also know this is how you view military members?

My point was that just because you served does not make you an authority on these matters. If you're saying you don't have contempt for the military since you served, well OK then. I do think this is throwing our wounded military under the bus to further Obama's politically correct worldview.

[micatala]

Where is the evidence that Obama had anything to do with this decision? From what I can see, this is entirely within the military and they are following their own guidelines.

Why are we being subjected to yet another unwarranted smear on the President?

[East of Eden]

Where is the evidence that Obama had anything to do with this decision? From what I can see, this is entirely within the military and they are following their own guidelines.

And who is the Commander in Chief? Are you actually saying Obama has NO control over this?

Why are we being subjected to yet another unwarranted smear on the President?

What is the motivation of the wounded soldiers protesting this crazy decision? Is there anything Obama has done you disagree with?

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 42:

No due to health reasons, son served in 101st Airborne, two cousins were Marine and Naval officers, and my uncle is a retired Navy captain, veteran of WWII-Vietnam, and former commanding officer of NAS Barbers Point, Hawaii. They agree with me on this issue.

Discounting any challenge to the referenced folks serving, I challenge you to offer some means by which we can confirm they agree with you on this issue.

1st challenge.

2nd challenge.