Does free will exist in Heaven?

[Metatron]

I've seen the argument presented many times on this forum that God allows the existence of evil in the world because it is important for man to have free will, otherwise it is argued man would be little better than God's robots. This leads me to wonder how Christians envision Heaven working. So a few questions:


Does free will exist in Heaven?

Is it possible to sin in Heaven and, if so, what happens to the sinner?

If not, how is man not the will-less robots Christians often argue we would be here under similar circumstances?

[Morphine]

I've seen the argument presented many times on this forum that God allows the existence of evil in the world because it is important for man to have free will, otherwise it is argued man would be little better than God's robots. This leads me to wonder how Christians envision Heaven working. So a few questions:


Does free will exist in Heaven?

Is it possible to sin in Heaven and, if so, what happens to the sinner?

If not, how is man not the will-less robots Christians often argue we would be here under similar circumstances?

'Free will' in itself is a bit flawed. With critical thought, it can even be seen as an oxymoron. But we have 'will' nonetheless, and so I'll just speak from that ideology.

A notion in Christendom is that we go to Heaven, but that's more poetic then literal. Only saints and the specifically elected go to Heaven, and the rest remain in their grave until the return of Christ. At that point, they are risen from the grave, both the good and wicked, and are judged accordingly. The one's that are judged wicked will suffer the second death, wand the others will continue to live- but they live on a new Earth, maintained with Christ as Lord.

Very well, but the same questions apply.

After the second death, does man possess whatever approximation of free will that you believe we possess? Is someone resurrected to the new Earth capable of sin? If not, why not? If they still can sin, what happens to them if they do?

Well, we are not given new bodies, the ones we had are just restored. In a lot of ways, our souls are three in one- the body, mind, and spirit. Three reflections of the same thing, if you like.
If you take the soul energy out of the mind/body, you no longer have a personality. 'You' are pretty much gone.

And so saints and the elect go to Heaven, their bodies remain here. Their personality is gone and they take on a Heavenly complex.
So it's hard to explain the 'will' that they have thereafter. They have become one with God, but can dissent from God all the same.
This is why you will notice that demons and angels don't really have personalities.

Whoa. Their personality is gone?
Then what was the point of them living on earth if they don't take any of their personality with them that they acquired from life experiences?
Though I would like to believe their is some afterlife paradise for the good people, I find it hard to believe. I find it even harder to believe the Christian versions of this sanctuary.
But back to the topic, it seems clear that based off of your information, "we" have no free will in heaven. But the devil and his followers did.

[Tex]

I've seen the argument presented many times on this forum that God allows the existence of evil in the world because it is important for man to have free will, otherwise it is argued man would be little better than God's robots. This leads me to wonder how Christians envision Heaven working. So a few questions:

Tex: The knowledge of evil will always exist. God allows people the free will do do evil at this moment in time, so we can make our choice. Choice being:
Do we wish to live in a world that is slowly looking like Earth.....Or would we ratter give up all that we have, so that we can all be equal?

[wonderer]

I've seen the argument presented many times on this forum that God allows the existence of evil in the world because it is important for man to have free will, otherwise it is argued man would be little better than God's robots. This leads me to wonder how Christians envision Heaven working. So a few questions:


Does free will exist in Heaven?

Is it possible to sin in Heaven and, if so, what happens to the sinner?

I believe that free will exist in Heaven. But all that get to heaven wants freely that what is God’s will and therefore they are suitable to heaven.

In my opinion sin is to abandon God or be apart from God. If you are in God’s kingdom, those are not possible, in my opinion. And I also believe that no one that goes to heaven wants to go away from there.

But Lucifer and the other fallen angels were in heaven yet went apart from God. Could that not happen again?

[wonderer]

I've seen the argument presented many times on this forum that God allows the existence of evil in the world because it is important for man to have free will, otherwise it is argued man would be little better than God's robots. This leads me to wonder how Christians envision Heaven working. So a few questions:


Does free will exist in Heaven?

Is it possible to sin in Heaven and, if so, what happens to the sinner?

If not, how is man not the will-less robots Christians often argue we would be here under similar circumstances?

I wonder about this question myself.
If we don't have free will in heaven, and heaven is the ideal and perfect state, then why could God not have made earth like this in the first place?

If we do have free will in heaven, then what's the point of heaven? Sin could again 'spoil' it

It doesn't make sense either way.

The 'robot' argument is just an excuse invented by Christians to try to make sense of something which doesn't actually make sense, why a good God would bring/allow sin into the world.

[ttruscott]

The "free" in "free will' means uncoerced by absolutely anything...

There is no free will in heaven since our choices will be constrained by our prior choices, our commitment to holiness, our choice to love GOD and join HIS church, to follow HIS plan for the purpose HE created us etc etc.

Free will was a short term affair and ony available before we learned any truth of GOD's reality...once He created the physical universe, coercion entered our conciousness and we have had to deal with that ever since;

which seems to work pretty well; Real choices within the constraints of spiritual reality.

Peace, Ted

[ttruscott]

...

But Lucifer and the other fallen angels were in heaven yet went apart from God. Could that not happen again?

Good morning wonderer,

the story about Lucifer in heaven with GOD does not prove they had bowed to HIM then rebelled but only that they rebelled. Big difference...

Pre-Conception Existence theology supposes that we all lived with GOD in the spirit world before the creation of the physical universe and we all had to choose the kind of life we most deeply wanted.

GOD, not wanting to coerece our choice, hid HIS glory and Majesty then asked us to choose the life we wanted, a life with HIM (unproven to be GOD or able to fulfill HIS promises and warnings)

or

a life where we are our own god, and saw Jehovah as a false god unable to fulfill his warnings of damnation, wherein our will is the supreme wil and we bow to no one...

This choice was based on hope that the life we chose would be the life we would have for eternity as per Faith is not just "not by proof" but also "by hope." Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

and those who so chose GOD by faith in HIM became elect and satan and the others fell from any hope of grace.

So while it looks dangerous to have heavenly spirits rebelling, in fact we all did our own version of that already, the difference being that those choices were free will choices but when we get back to paradise, we will be constrained (without free will) by the teachings of the Holy Spirit here on earth and what we learned about the suffering of sin and by our commitment to love GOD add to fulfill HIS reason for our creation...

no free will, but certainly no worse than what we have here in which we do ok making true decisions inside the constraints of spiritual reality.

As for whoever suggested we lose our personality, pffft. you have no free will on earth yet you calim personality.

Peace, Ted

[Metatron]

I've seen the argument presented many times on this forum that God allows the existence of evil in the world because it is important for man to have free will, otherwise it is argued man would be little better than God's robots. This leads me to wonder how Christians envision Heaven working. So a few questions:


Does free will exist in Heaven?

Is it possible to sin in Heaven and, if so, what happens to the sinner?

I believe that free will exist in Heaven. But all that get to heaven wants freely that what is God’s will and therefore they are suitable to heaven.

In my opinion sin is to abandon God or be apart from God. If you are in God’s kingdom, those are not possible, in my opinion. And I also believe that no one that goes to heaven wants to go away from there.

However, if free will exists in heaven, it is inevitable that the people residing there will continue screwing up in at least minor ways unless we are somehow transformed into perfect beings and are therefore no longer human. If God supposedly cannot stand anything less than perfection, it would seem that he would not be able to tolerate our less than perfect selves there.

[SilenceInMotion]

'Preexistence' theology is errant. It posits that souls are independent and personal before being put into a vessel. Christian metaphysics simply just doesn't allow for this.

We are blessed in that we can fail. That is what life on earth is about. The angels were already born in grace, and so some of them grew envious about it.
I think it's pretty ironic, actually. People on Earth complain and seek this grace, while Satan, in particular, envied us.

You see, Satan was the original lightbearer. He was given the charge to watch over man. (Such mediation gives one a more natural will, because they have to be physically part of this realm.)
This is the traditional, easy way of putting it anyhow. A more enlightening way of putting it would be that he was the keeper of the truth, just as the title implies.
Adam and Eve did not know the difference between good and evil. They would have never eaten from the Tree of Knowledge unless Satan tempted them.

There was probably nothing 'magical' about the Tree at all. It was simply going against God that opened their eyes. Thus, they knew the difference between good and evil.

When God saw this, he cursed Satan to the ground. This is the meaning of the metaphor 'serpent'. All the fallen angels are called serpents. In the book of Isaiah, for example, Leviathan is called a 'twisted serpent'. This angel in particular will also be the 'beast of the sea'. Or, the 'Anti Christ' arising from the sea of people as traditional hermeneutics go with Revelations.

Clearing the air on Lucifer:
Lucifer is not the name of any angel. Jerome did not understand the metaphor of 'Morning Star' when he transcribed the Latin Vulgate to the King James Bible. He took the 'morning star' as Venus, or, in those times, Lucifer.
Suffice it to say, that is the only version you will see that translation.

[wonderer]

...

But Lucifer and the other fallen angels were in heaven yet went apart from God. Could that not happen again?

Good morning wonderer,

the story about Lucifer in heaven with GOD does not prove they had bowed to HIM then rebelled but only that they rebelled. Big difference...

Pre-Conception Existence theology supposes that we all lived with GOD in the spirit world before the creation of the physical universe and we all had to choose the kind of life we most deeply wanted.

GOD, not wanting to coerece our choice, hid HIS glory and Majesty then asked us to choose the life we wanted, a life with HIM (unproven to be GOD or able to fulfill HIS promises and warnings)

or

a life where we are our own god, and saw Jehovah as a false god unable to fulfill his warnings of damnation, wherein our will is the supreme wil and we bow to no one...

This choice was based on hope that the life we chose would be the life we would have for eternity as per Faith is not just "not by proof" but also "by hope." Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

and those who so chose GOD by faith in HIM became elect and satan and the others fell from any hope of grace.

So while it looks dangerous to have heavenly spirits rebelling, in fact we all did our own version of that already, the difference being that those choices were free will choices but when we get back to paradise, we will be constrained (without free will) by the teachings of the Holy Spirit here on earth and what we learned about the suffering of sin and by our commitment to love GOD add to fulfill HIS reason for our creation...

no free will, but certainly no worse than what we have here in which we do ok making true decisions inside the constraints of spiritual reality.

As for whoever suggested we lose our personality, pffft. you have no free will on earth yet you calim personality.

Peace, Ted

If we don't have free will in heaven, and heaven is the ideal and perfect state, then why could God not have made earth like this in the first place?

[wonderer]

The "free" in "free will' means uncoerced by absolutely anything...

There is no free will in heaven since our choices will be constrained by our prior choices, our commitment to holiness, our choice to love GOD and join HIS church, to follow HIS plan for the purpose HE created us etc etc.

Free will was a short term affair and ony available before we learned any truth of GOD's reality...once He created the physical universe, coercion entered our conciousness and we have had to deal with that ever since;

which seems to work pretty well; Real choices within the constraints of spiritual reality.

Peace, Ted

You haven't actually given any reason why it would be IMPOSSIBLE to sin in heaven.